Massa

Wrex · 30 Dec 2002, 13:52 (Ref:460104)

When Massa came to F1 this year, there were many here hailing him as the next Senna (in fact I think we had a thread on that very subject).

Well some dreams turn to nightmares and as the season went on, Massa's potential failed to materialise into worthwhile results. Despite some impressive speed, mistakes are what his 2002 season is most remembered for.

I was just reading this interview at F1-Live.com

Quote:

Massa was simply too young

'I am not saying he wasn't a good enough driver.'

2003 sees a change of direction for Sauber with the Swiss outfit opting to take experience over youth after two years of giving young inexperienced drivers a chance in Formula One. Peter Sauber drafted in Kimi Raikkonen for the 2001 season, only to lose him to McLaren after one season, the young Finn stepping up to fill the shoes of departing double world champion, Mika Hakkinen at the Woking squad.

Tin 2002, Brazilian driver Felipe Massa was employed, Sauber believing the youngster was another Raikkonen they could groom for future victories. However, instead of keeping the young driver on for a second season, veteran racer Heinz-Harald Frentzen was reemployed, Peter Sauber opting for experience over youth this time around.

Felipe was definitely quick on most occasions, however Sauber recently explained that despite his raw speed, he wasn't that efficient in other aspects, such as technical issues of the car, his immaturity leading him to believe that he could compensate for this side of things on the track instead.

"He was a lot like Kimi, but because of that behaviour Felipe sometimes drove over his limit and made mistakes,” Peter Sauber told the Italian press. “I am not saying he wasn't a good enough driver, he was simply too young and immature and that's why we didn't renew his contract."

Sounds like a pretty fair assessment to me.

Korr · 30 Dec 2002, 14:36 (Ref:460128)

Sounds on the level.

On the plus side, Massa will finally lose his baby fat next year, and will buy his first razor in 2005.

Gt_R · 30 Dec 2002, 14:44 (Ref:460135)

Quote Peter Sauber
"He was a lot like Kimi, but because of that behaviour Felipe sometimes drove over his limit and made mistakes,” Peter Sauber told the Italian press. “I am not saying he wasn't a good enough driver, he was simply too young and immature and that's why we didn't renew his contract."
=================

Frank didn't terminate JPM's contract after 2001 did he?

How is Massa supposed to mature in F1 if he isn't even given the time to?

**Aysedasi** · 30 Dec 2002, 15:16 (Ref:460159)

Quote:

Originally posted by Gt_R

How is Massa supposed to mature in F1 if he isn't even given the time to?

On that basis half the current F3 crop should be in F1, shouldn't they?

I am Tifosi · 30 Dec 2002, 15:37 (Ref:460179)

Quote:

Originally posted by Gt_R
How is Massa supposed to mature in F1 if he isn't even given the time to?

That is one of the problems with F1. No one is given the opportunity to mature. Either you got it or you don't must be the philosophy.

**Aysedasi** · 30 Dec 2002, 15:39 (Ref:460183)

The trouble is the team bosses are all so desperate to "find" the next Senna or TGF that guys who are simply not mature enough, racecraft-wise are being dumped in F1, hyped-up to the eyeballs. Whatever happened to "graduation" through the lower formulae?

Gt_R · 30 Dec 2002, 16:00 (Ref:460206)

Honestly, i have not much problem with F1 going for experienced highly regarded drivers, ie Sauber signing HHF, provided they still are at the top of the game. In fact, i find it ironic how teams spend hundreds of millions to develope and built cars, yet let some inexperienced young lad "race" it to save a couple of bucks.

F1 is a sports for the toughest and best F1 drivers around. Not a kid play ground.

But that said, you have to feel sad Massa is gone... just like that.

**Aysedasi** · 30 Dec 2002, 16:01 (Ref:460207)

Quote:

Originally posted by Gt_R

But that said, you have to feel sad Massa is gone... just like that.

Perhaps.

Sad he was plunged into the deep end in the first place without his water-wings, maybe.....

Glen · 30 Dec 2002, 16:17 (Ref:460213)

He was inconsistent and erratic, as well as simply inexperienced. If it had been the case that he was substantially quicker than Heidfeld, but lost out by a few rookie errors stopping him get the points, then he'd still be there.... But sometimes you'd just see him coming down the straight and think there must be something wrong with his car or something - he didn't look like he could drive in a straight line! Add that to his reported inability to learn the technological side (car set-up is everything) and you've got to wonder what all the excitement was about in the first place.

Minardi fan · 30 Dec 2002, 16:58 (Ref:460253)

Put simply, who would you rather have driving your car? Massa or Frentzen? I know Massa needs time to mature, but the experience, speed and general... brilliance... Frentzen can bring to Sauber (again) was just too good to miss.

senna12 · 30 Dec 2002, 17:20 (Ref:460283)

Being stuck with a label so early in your career can be detrimental sometimes.

Unfortunately for Felipe, he has been given the label of "technically unproficient" by his team principal, especially compared to the previous raw rookie driver. This can't be a good thing for the young Brazilian.

BootsOntheSide · 30 Dec 2002, 19:12 (Ref:460335)

The fundamentally truthis that he didn't show especially impressive pace; Raikkonen was challenging Heidfeld's pace much of the time, and showing maturity beyond his years; Massa has come in older and more experienced than Kimi, and made a fool of himself on several occasions, with mistakes even guys like Deletraz and Rosset avoided, proved himself not to be a team player, and rarely outpaced Nick, who is now regarded more as 'steady' and 'reliable' rather than outright 'fast'. I can't see him getting a second chance. So much for the 2004 Ferrari drive.

Snrub · 30 Dec 2002, 19:15 (Ref:460337)

Quote:

Originally posted by senna12
Being stuck with a label so early in your career can be detrimental sometimes.

Unfortunately for Felipe, he has been given the label of "technically unproficient" by his team principal, especially compared to the previous raw rookie driver. This can't be a good thing for the young Brazilian.

Agreed, if you screw up your first chance at F1 you don't usually get a second chance.

Mr V · 30 Dec 2002, 20:58 (Ref:460437)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
Massa's potential failed to materialise into worthwhile results.

Says a lot for Nick Heidfeld imo, Massa gets dropped for basically only managing 4 points, and his team-mate, (NH), with all his experience only managed a total of 7 points.

Yoong Montoya · 30 Dec 2002, 22:10 (Ref:460488)

Quote:

Originally posted by I am Tifosi
That is one of the problems with F1. No one is given the opportunity to mature. Either you got it or you don't must be the philosophy.

At least Montoya got that opportunity. And I'm glad he did. Not many do sadly, as Massa and Sato both found out

Nicholas · 30 Dec 2002, 22:39 (Ref:460505)

I remember Sauber saying earlier in the year that Massa needed to take it easier during testing, I thought he did an okay job throughout the year but I wasn't really watching (except when he hit Bernoldi at Monaco...). Mr Sauber knows more than I do and the above doesn't really come to me as a surprise.

That said, Massa and Sato were both two decent drivers who could become pretty good, especially Sato so I hope they get another chance in the next two or three years

f1manoz · 30 Dec 2002, 23:34 (Ref:460552)

Massa was over-hyped to begin with and he couldn't handle the pressure of modern F1. He was found wanting on all fronts, including talent, and dropping him was the best decision Sauber made all year.

He should go back to F3000 and learn some racecraft before he returns. I'm sick of seeing babies given a chance before drivers who have slugged it out for years to get into F1, only to see drivers such as Massa given a chance...

JonesF1 · 31 Dec 2002, 00:00 (Ref:460568)

Weve all had this discussion before but I'd like to say again that its a shame the age of future champions starting at the back of the grid and working their way up is over.

With that being said it pretty obvious that Massa couldnt cope with todays twitchy F1 cars. He had a serious problem with over-steering and he never seemed to adjust. A year or 2 of testing and some help from an experienced F1 pilot would do him a world of good (the Ferrari deal). If he goes straight back to racing he'll be setting himself up to fail.

DavidStHubbins · 31 Dec 2002, 04:00 (Ref:460671)

Massa will be back!

Mania · 1 Jan 2003, 02:32 (Ref:461353)

I think a year testing with a top team such as Ferrari could do Felipe a world of good. I think he's very fast - certainly quicker than Heidfeld for sure - but as people have pointed out already...he does lack race craft and he needs to work on that a bit.

That said..Sauber certainly havent taken care of him as well as they should have - so I think Peter needs to keep his mouth shut.

f1manoz · 1 Jan 2003, 07:38 (Ref:461415)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mania
Sauber certainly havent taken care of him as well as they should have - so I think Peter needs to keep his mouth shut.

Why should Sauber 'take care of him'? Massa was seen as the 'next Senna' anyway, so should have easily out-qualified and out-raced Nick every time, beating the likes of Fisichella every race and probably a couple of podiums...

Sauber were spending good money on getting results, not nurturing a driver who spends half his time in the countryside anyway.

Best decision Peter made all year was dumping Massa back where he belongs - out of F1.

Mania · 2 Jan 2003, 02:05 (Ref:461777)

Quote:

Originally posted by f1manoz
Why should Sauber 'take care of him'? Massa was seen as the 'next Senna' anyway, so should have easily out-qualified and out-raced Nick every time,

He did out race Heidfeld quite a few times and had to "move over" for him as well.

Anyway, its fair to say though that he didnt live up to a lot of peoples expectations. But I think it was pretty silly for people to believe he was the next "Senna" anyway.

As for Sauber's decision...I still think its a bad move - Frentzen's not a long term prospect for Sauber and Massa has a bright future ahead of him in F1.

A year testing will help him get back on the grid for 04 or 05 - possibly in the Ferrari.

Wrex · 2 Jan 2003, 02:14 (Ref:461779)

I think the telling point here is that Ferrari (or anyone else in the pitlane) have'nt exactly snapped him up.

Sauber is'nt a dummy, he has been running the most successful privateer team for a while now which is a difficult act itself these days.

EERO · 2 Jan 2003, 02:19 (Ref:461781)

Quote:

Originally posted by Snrub
Agreed, if you screw up your first chance at F1 you don't usually get a second chance.

Two names:

Mika Hakkinen

Ricardo Patrese

DavidStHubbins · 2 Jan 2003, 02:51 (Ref:461786)

Massa on the track made great viewing for me and I will miss his crazy presence on the track this year. I agree he isnt the "next Senna" but nobody is anyway. He didnt claim to be either. We need some interesting drivers like Massa on the F1 scene to spice it up.

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