ELMS ELMS (was LMS) 2012 discussion

**Bentley03** · 12 Mar 2011, 09:29 (Ref:2844371)

With news filtering through from the 2011 Test Days at Paul Ricard that Patrick Peter intends to run the 2012 Le Mans Series independantly of, and on different dates to, the ILMC, please bring all LMS 2012 relevant discussion here.

TheNewBob · 12 Mar 2011, 10:06 (Ref:2844389)

I'm really not liking it. How many entries will there be in the separate events? Say goodbye to big grids in Europe, ACO.

Félix · 12 Mar 2011, 11:03 (Ref:2844415)

So something like a second Spa race after LM counting only for the LMS... Who would enter that??? Might be a good opportunity to experiment and do things differently though to boost the grid numbers: new GT and LMP classes with a 3 in the name??

The Badger · 12 Mar 2011, 11:11 (Ref:2844421)

I dont like the sound of this either Bob .

Lola T70 · 12 Mar 2011, 11:20 (Ref:2844428)

Why would P Peter want to do that?

I cannot see any immediate benefit to the LMS....

gucom · 12 Mar 2011, 11:49 (Ref:2844439)

that doesn't seem to make any sense, did they give a reason for this move?

I can see how it would make it easier for both the LMS and the ILMC to get their own TV packages, but other than that I fail to see the point. The ILMC races probably won't attract the smaller teams (except for Le Mans), and the LMS will probably go back to gentlemen racers only?

just when they seemed to be onto something amazing, they tear it apart?!?

Mal · 12 Mar 2011, 13:13 (Ref:2844468)

Lets hope it is out of necessity because of the amount of entries they are expecting

Speed-King · 12 Mar 2011, 17:10 (Ref:2844566)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

Lets hope it is out of necessity because of the amount of entries they are expecting

That would be my first thought...

JAG · 12 Mar 2011, 19:31 (Ref:2844634)

With a baseline of 30 ILMC entries and 40 in the LMS your going to have difficulties if all turn up at most circuits.

If the LMS reverts to P2, LMPC, GTE-Pro, GTE-Am and GTC they could top 40 cars as the economy improves.

Standalone ILMC events will more than likely attract a number of LMS regulars and see teams doubling up if they've split cars over both series.

As mentioned there's also the issue of TV packages with should be easier to sort without current complications.

NaBUru38 · 13 Mar 2011, 00:37 (Ref:2844769)

Perhaps Euro LMS races will switch to an ALMS-like middle distance format, like 2:45 or 4 hours?

AndrewF31 · 13 Mar 2011, 16:47 (Ref:2845043)

I'm a bit worried about this. They're really stretching out the budgets. They either think:
- more teams want to join (evidence of LMS' non-ILMC events this year show otherwise)
- more races mean more ticket sales and more money (in their own little fantasy world the economy isn't in a funk so teams have money to race 6 extra races and the fans have money to book hotels, buy tickets, flights, gas, etc.)

I hope they explain the rationale soon before making a final decision.

courageous · 13 Mar 2011, 16:57 (Ref:2845047)

Good job they've got the SPEED series running with them, may need to call those cars into the main event in the same way they did Formula Le Mans.

Actually, might not be a bad thing
exclude P1 unless you get a guarentee of 5 of them
Maybe chuck in some GT3s if needed

This way Europe could have 8-9 Le Mans type races

But for gods sake, racing at the same circuits is just daft; plenty of circuits with history - Vallelunga 6hr perhaps?

Speed-King · 13 Mar 2011, 16:59 (Ref:2845050)

Quote:

Originally Posted by courageous

Good job they've got the SPEED series running with them, may need to call those cars into the main event in the same way they did Formula Le Mans.

At least that wouldn't be a spec-class. I'd take CN any day over FLM!

kneesaregood · 13 Mar 2011, 17:01 (Ref:2845053)

Its shows even more signs of stupidity between PP and the ACO, will they ever sit down and work together? They have quite possibly one of the best seasons starting this year in many years and next year they could quite possibly lower the quality of not one but two series. and with this not only will the series suffer but so will the teams, the sponsers, and the fans.

No doubt over the next few weeks we'll here stories from PP and his side blaming the ACO for his decision.

I thought that the ACO LMS And ALMS were finally starting to work together but I guess I was wrong

JAG · 13 Mar 2011, 17:28 (Ref:2845070)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

I'm a bit worried about this. They're really stretching out the budgets. They either think:
- more teams want to join (evidence of LMS' non-ILMC events this year show otherwise)
- more races mean more ticket sales and more money (in their own little fantasy world the economy isn't in a funk so teams have money to race 6 extra races and the fans have money to book hotels, buy tickets, flights, gas, etc.)

I hope they explain the rationale soon before making a final decision.

Beyond this year I'm not sure how much crossover there's going to be. In 2012 Rebellion and Pescarolo will likely both compete full-time in the ILMC and Strakka have said they're targeting the same in P1.

Hints about a split have been made before with Peter wanting to ban factory teams and Pescarolo saying 2011 could be the final year for the LMS. If Peter wants the series to continue they'll need a new class structure which if successful wouldn't allow joint ILMC/LMS grids even if both sides wanted it.

AndrewF31 · 9 Sep 2011, 11:59 (Ref:2953111)

Gotta love the search tool. Time to resurrect this topic:

http://www.motorstv.com/car/enduranc...s-lmpc-in-2012

Formula Le Mans will be LMPC in LMS next year. Some convergence apparently between ALMS and LMS, or LMS and ACO copying the model.

And interesting bit in the article:

Quote:

“The ACO wanted to create a true ladder series for endurance, like that which exists in open wheel racing. That is a reality today: Karting, Proto-School ACO, Formula Le Mans, LMP2 and LMP1,” explained ACO vice president Pierre Fillon.

The winning team in next year’s LMPC class will receive an invitation to run in LMP2 at the 2013 Le Mans 24 Hours. The winning drivers will scoop a €45,000 prize, duns LMP1 or LMP2 drives in the 24 Hours. The first three finishers from each race will also receive prizes in the form of spare parts or Michelin tyres.

Deleted · 9 Sep 2011, 13:57 (Ref:2953153)

Good move, FLM was always a bit of a dumb and misleading name anyways.

It was mentioned over MWM last night that the reason why the new LMS GTC won't be a GT3 class is because balance of performance would be pure and utter nightmare. Orly?

Stahler · 13 Nov 2011, 00:43 (Ref:2985113)

The first confirmed venue?

LMS to visit Brno in September.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/news.html

BTW Is this the first high-profile prototype event in Brno since the 1988 WSC race?

Graham Goodwin · 13 Nov 2011, 01:01 (Ref:2985120)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stahler

The first confirmed venue?

LMS to visit Brno in September.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/news.html

BTW Is this the first high-profile prototype event in Brno since the 1988 WSC race?

FIA GT have been to Brno more recently

Calendar may be released Tuesday - There's a further track new to LMS on it - and one circuit that the LMS visited in 2011 stays for 2012

AndrewF31 · 13 Nov 2011, 01:36 (Ref:2985128)

So, basically, Silverstone and Spa gone since they're WEC and Peter wants to completely cut the umbilical cord.
Estoril (unfortunately for me being a resident in Lisbon) most likely got the Axe in favour of Brno.
Imola is probably being substituted with Monza since Peter can now put his races where he wants and not be held hostage by the ACO ILMC guys.

Rumours of Donington.

2011 circuit continuing over is probably Paul Ricard then.

5 circuits: Paul Ricard, Brno, Monza, Donington(??) + 1 more
Nurburgring? Since Germany has also been rejected by the WEC. But there's also Spain. But then there's a hole if there's 2 completely new tracks to the championship.

Crazy silly season.

Down F0rce · 13 Nov 2011, 01:48 (Ref:2985134)

WEC at Silverstone, LMS at Donington? Seems pretty pointless to me, why not race together? Are either races going to have more than 20 - 25 cars, realistically?

Graham Goodwin · 13 Nov 2011, 01:56 (Ref:2985138)

Le Castellet, Zolder, Donington, Brno, Portimao

Simmi · 13 Nov 2011, 02:01 (Ref:2985143)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Down F0rce

WEC at Silverstone, LMS at Donington? Seems pretty pointless to me, why not race together? Are either races going to have more than 20 - 25 cars, realistically?

Yeah I think both will probably have more cars than that. I think the WEC were estimating a conservative 28 car full-season entry. I reckon they'll get a couple more before you begin to flesh out the grid with locals.

Really couldn't tell you about LMS but with the GTC-class they should be able to hit 25 cars I'd say.

AGD · 13 Nov 2011, 02:01 (Ref:2985144)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Down F0rce

WEC at Silverstone, LMS at Donington? Seems pretty pointless to me, why not race together? Are either races going to have more than 20 - 25 cars, realistically?

Some LMS teams will probably race at Silverstone as guests. The WEC will have more than 25 cars I'm quite sure. The LMS too probably, but we will have to wait and see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Le Castellet, Zolder, Donington, Brno, Portimao

That's not too bad. It's actually pretty good. Something in Germany and/or Italy would have been nice, but oh well.

Donington Park does not have the Dunlop Bridge anymore, does it?

AndrewF31 · 13 Nov 2011, 02:03 (Ref:2985145)

Kind of 'shocked' Portugal is on there but I won't complain!

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