Why doesn't anyone want to drive for Alpine?

[AndreasDavour]

I read a piece with the same title as mine, and today I read what Alonso had to say on why Otmar was surprised to hear him leave. It made me think.


We have a guy like Piastri who had been funded throughout his career by Alpine basically betting his reputation with a very public distancing from Alpine.



We also have the case of Ricciardo who left Renault when they finally was on an upward trajectory. He had been getting points regularly, and a podium.



The Alonso situation then. So apparently Alonso talked to the CEO and his mechanics and engineer, but not to the team principal about his plans. Interestingly enough, the CEO did then not talk to the team principal!


I'm starting to wonder why the drivers don't want to drive for Alpine?


I can see how Ricciardo felt he had to get away from his team principal, but he is gone now. What's going on inside that team, really?

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by AndreasDavour

I read a piece with the same title as mine, and today I read what Alonso had to say on why Otmar was surprised to hear him leave. It made me think.


We have a guy like Piastri who had been funded throughout his career by Alpine basically betting his reputation with a very public distancing from Alpine.



We also have the case of Ricciardo who left Renault when they finally was on an upward trajectory. He had been getting points regularly, and a podium.



The Alonso situation then. So apparently Alonso talked to the CEO and his mechanics and engineer, but not to the team principal about his plans. Interestingly enough, the CEO did then not talk to the team principal!


I'm starting to wonder why the drivers don't want to drive for Alpine?


I can see how Ricciardo felt he had to get away from his team principal, but he is gone now. What's going on inside that team, really?

And there was different team principal, when Ricciardo left.



If Alonso really talked to CEO and others before - why they left THEIR team to get these bad image? Even if they don't like their new team principal, having no second driver, is not what a team wants to have!


It looks, like french people/manufacturer can't run a f1 team properly, it needs a italian macho to run it successfully (Briatore)...

[S griffin]

I doubt Briatore would touch F1 again with a bargepole and I doubt anyone would offer him a role either

[Sodemo]

I'll drive!

I've done a few races in a TKM and I tested a Clio Cup car 2 years ago.

What more credentials do you need? Sign me up.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I'll drive!

I've done a few races in a TKM and I tested a Clio Cup car 2 years ago.

What more credentials do you need? Sign me up.

Well, I once had a drive of one of these bad boys


It was a b-tch. and I spanked it.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Well, I once had a drive of one of these bad boys


It was a b-tch. and I spanked it.

So, you really are Troy Queef?

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

So, you really are Troy Queef?

you should have seen me snicking thru the gears like a highly trained brain surgeon giving a genius a frontal lobotomy, then carving thru the curves til the rear end tried to come around to meet me.
A little dab of oppo and i'm away!

[AndreasDavour]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

If Alonso really talked to CEO and others before - why they left THEIR team to get these bad image? Even if they don't like their new team principal, having no second driver, is not what a team wants to have!

Yeah, something is very odd inside that team....

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

you should have seen me snicking thru the gears like a highly trained brain surgeon giving a genius a frontal lobotomy, then carving thru the curves til the rear end tried to come around to meet me.
A little dab of oppo and i'm away!

Nice.

Richard

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I'll drive!



I've done a few races in a TKM and I tested a Clio Cup car 2 years ago.



What more credentials do you need? Sign me up.

Funnily enough one of our Junior TKM rivals from when MiniMM was racing is now in the Alpine Academy and has tested an old car. Guess she'll be called up soon

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I doubt Briatore would touch F1 again with a bargepole and I doubt anyone would offer him a role either

I sincerely doubt F1 would touch Flavio with a bargepole either.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I doubt Briatore would touch F1 again with a bargepole and I doubt anyone would offer him a role either

I don't say he is needed, or would be the right person. He was only in charge, as Renault (Benetton) had their most successful times (2005/2006).

So he had a clue, how to deal with "french" team...

[GTRMagic]

I am not sure how big a contribution Renault/Alpine actually made.. Russell Ingall did what the journalists should have done, and asked..
Here

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

I don't say he is needed, or would be the right person. He was only in charge, as Renault (Benetton) had their most successful times (2005/2006).

So he had a clue, how to deal with "french" team...

He was good at giving the right jobs to the right people, but that's about it.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I am not sure how big a contribution Renault/Alpine actually made.. Russell Ingall did what the journalists should have done, and asked..
Here

From 3:00 through to about 18:00 on that video.

Agree - very lazy "journalism" from many who it appears have not bothered to go out and track down a good source and ask the right questions.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out at the CRB on Monday.

[AndreasDavour]

Really good link there. Thanks.

[Tourer]

It is good that Oscar Piastri has been able to put his side of the story out there.

Summary is that he and his management had advised Alpine that he'd be racing for McLaren in 2023 & beyond quite some time in advance of Mr Alonso leaving, and therefore well in advance of Alpine's false announcement that Mr Piastri would be racing for them in 2023.

Given the amount of noise that Otmar has made about this, particularly besmirching Oscar's loyalty etc (Otmar was still running with that on Saturday at Zandvoort on TV) it really does beg the question of the structure and management approach at Alpine, given that the team KNEW that Oscar was leaving and had been advised properly and did not have any kind of contract with him that prevented him moving on.

Given also that claims from Otmar of 20mill plus Euro contribution from the team to Oscar's career seem false based on what Russell Ingall had to say in the previously posted piece (Naomi Schiff said much the same at Spa - she mentioned that the "word" around the support paddocks there was that the Renault / Alpine contribution was much, much less than the numbers being thrown around by Otmar).

The question to me is whether Alpine's management structure is so dysfunctional that Otmar in his position doesn't have the whole story on either matter, or whether Otmar knew the whole story and made the announcement anyway, then followed it up with a lengthy and continuing smear of young driver or all of the above? Either way, journalists SHOULD be jumping all over that end of the story (but are unlikely to, despite this reasoned story in Autosport).

I have to say that this saga does really make me wonder why in fact anyone WOULD want to drive for Alpine, if this is the way that management in the team operates. If the structure and approach of management can't deal with something as relatively straightforward as a driver announcement, how well will it deal with development of the team and performance over the coming years?

[bathurst77]

Something tells me Oscar wont be getting his friday p1 alpine joyride now

[P38 in workshop]

I saw that Otmar stated that it's not his style to cast aspersions on those who were there previously and that is a reasonable viewpoint.I would therefore expect a newly appointed principle to ascertain what arrangements were in place at a fairly early point in his position.With a view to taking action if they fell short of a satisfactory state of affairs.Which makes me wonder if he might be invited to attend a meeting at Boulogne-Billancourt to clarify matters and to suggest a plausible way forward-or a suitable replacement.Which might be driver,team principle,or both.

[peterelise]

Otmar should be highly embarrassed about this whole mess (the Piastri affair rather than Alonso given Alonso says his negotiations weren’t with Otmar). I think the following can now be taken as fact:

- Alpine did not have a contract in place with OP. They had a heads of agreement (setting out key terms that would appear in a contract). They certainly had not lodged a contract with the CRB.
- OP and his management had told Alpine about his signing with McLaren some time after 4 July and before Otmar announced OP would be driving for them.
- Andreas Seidl (who I find hugely impressive in his dealings with the media) confirmed that both he and Zak Brown had discussed OP’s signing with McLaren prior to Otmar’s announcement that OP would drive for Alpine in 2023.
- in the period following the Alpine announcement and OP’s rebuttal, McLaren and OP maintained their silence while Otmar frequently defamed OP by questioning both his integrity and loyalty. I find it hard to think of something more offensive to say about someone than that they lack integrity and loyalty.

The whole time Otmar is defaming OP by saying he lacks integrity, Otmar is knowingly being dishonest about the situation (we had a contract which we were honouring etc).

In short I find his behaviour appalling and don’t know how he can show his face in the paddock.

The team principal’s press conference from this weekend at Zandvoort is worth a read, both to see the Q and A between the media and Otmar, but also to contrast the Q and A between the media and Seidl. If I knew how to link it I would do so.

[Mike Harte]

This is the press conference: https://www.pitpass.com/73517/Dutch-...ess-Conference

[gert]

Originally Posted by peterelise

Otmar should be highly embarrassed about this whole mess (the Piastri affair rather than Alonso given Alonso says his negotiations weren’t with Otmar).

Apparently Piastri's arrangements (or non-arrangements as it turns out to be) also predate Szafnauer's arrival at Alpine.

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by gert

Apparently Piastri's arrangements (or non-arrangements as it turns out to be) also predate Szafnauer's arrival at Alpine.

Which is why I posted that a newly appointed head honcho ought to be determining what arrangements might be in place.Having done so ,he could take the necessary measures to avoid embarrassment.

[peterelise]

Originally Posted by gert

Apparently Piastri's arrangements (or non-arrangements as it turns out to be) also predate Szafnauer's arrival at Alpine.

Yes I loved Otmar’s answer to that question about whether there needed to be a review of the management given the loss of two drivers and Otmar says “all this happened in November of last year. So I guess, you know, it’s easy to blame people who aren’t here anymore. But that’s not my style”.

Breathtaking ability to blame the people in charge back in November 2021 while denying that he would do something like that!

As someone said, Otmar had every right and every reason, as well as all the time in the world after he was appointed team principal, to find out exactly what OP had signed (or hadn’t). I don’t believe that he was unaware of OP’s (lack of) contract situation and his behaviour strikes me as being consistent with the blame shifting that I detest from people who won’t acknowledge their responsibility for mistakes.

[Hawkwood]

While Szafnauer's getting a lot of flack, what was Laurent Rossi's role in this? He's the chief exec after all.

It's been confirmed that Alonso was holding talks with Szafnauer and Rossi before leaving, and Rossi has been in his leading role for much longer than Szafnauer, and should also have been well aware of Piastri'c contract situation.