Another Spa 6 hours question - Fire Extinguishers!

SZRacer · 16 Sep 2011, 20:12 (Ref:2956556)

OK, here's the deal:

I've got a Lifeline Zero2000 2.25l electrical plumbed in system (firing into cockpit and engine bay) in my Alfa. Been in there for 5 years or so. Always serviced and kept up to date.

In theory, since my car is FIA Period E, there is no requirement to have anything more than a 1.5l handheld extinguisher in the car. I feel happy with the level of protection the 2.25l offers, and have never had any scrutineering problems.

However, the scrutineering notes for the six Hours meeting states that ALL plumbed in systems must now be retained by the new FIA spec screw-down clamps, not the over centre clips as fitted to my extinguisher. I tried buying this new clamp/bracket from Lifeline. Unfortunately, the right size bracket, diameter wise, is too long to fit the bottle. And the FIA straps won't fit my old bracket. Lifeline don't offer any other options.

Since I've never had any problems with the entinguisher with UK scrutineers, I'm buggered if I'm going to shell out 500 quid for a new system just for basically a new bracket.

What would you do? I don't want to get excluded in scrutineering!

Alternative is to fit a handheld bottle, and remove the plumbed in bottle (bonkers, I know!) for the Pre-63 race at Spa. Can anyone confirm that using just the handheld (fixed down, natch) is still 'FIA-friendly' for a period E FIA car?

Sorry for the ramble....

**Tim Falce** · 16 Sep 2011, 20:25 (Ref:2956560)

You will need proper clamps, they seem to have started this earlier in the year. You could always wrap a couple of aluminium strips with holes drilled for bolts round the bottle or a couple of big jubilee clips.

Mike Bell · 16 Sep 2011, 20:42 (Ref:2956569)

Ditto what Tim says- I have been led to believe large jubilee clips meet the definition given in the regs.

Not sure if alloy strips and bolts would be strong enough- depends on bottle weight I guess.

vjay48 · 17 Sep 2011, 14:02 (Ref:2956879)

You can buy a kit of jubilee type clips which you cut to the required length to fit the diameter of the bottle.

Alex E · 17 Sep 2011, 20:57 (Ref:2957059)

The scrutineer at Zolder in May told me to use jubilee type clamps. Which I did, next time in Germany they were happy with it.
Alex

SZRacer · 18 Sep 2011, 14:52 (Ref:2957643)

Thanks, Chaps!

Suitably-sized jubilee clips ordered, now hoping they arrive before I leave on Wednesday.

Tempted to get a few more - I sense a potential business opportunity in Spa....

terence · 18 Sep 2011, 17:07 (Ref:2957667)

Hope you ordered a couple of dozen Jclips.

**Tim Falce** · 18 Sep 2011, 17:15 (Ref:2957672)

For anyone that gets caught out or just needs spares, there's a very good car accessory shop about half a mile the other side of Spa town on the right hand side of Av Reine Astrid. It looks like an ordinary car parts shop from the outside but it's like and Aladdin's cave of racing stuff inside with very reasonable prices compared with the stands at the circuit.

Wriggley Monkey · 19 Sep 2011, 19:42 (Ref:2958200)

Hmmmmmm.

I only have a handheld extinguisher - my reading was that this should be okay with over the centre clips.

Is this right ?

again Period E.

Opinions welcome.

Wriggley Monkey · 19 Sep 2011, 19:47 (Ref:2958201)

Just realised it would be stupid to bolt in a hand held extinguisher as you would not be able to get it out in an emergency (so to speak).

so I guess I have answered my own question.

Simon Hadfield · 20 Sep 2011, 10:11 (Ref:2958413)

This change was obviously needed because of the huge number of fire bottles that came loose and were floating around in cars.......mind you they could always be restrained by out of date seatbelts!

**Peter Mallett** · 20 Sep 2011, 16:31 (Ref:2958610)

Found out today that you can only get the official clamps for a 4kg extinguisher. Anyone need a 2.25 extinguisher?

grantp · 20 Sep 2011, 17:02 (Ref:2958622)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Found out today that you can only get the official clamps for a 4kg extinguisher. Anyone need a 2.25 extinguisher?

Hmm. Sounds like a 'change' and 'marketing' stealth move. Heads they win, tails you lose.

**Peter Mallett** · 20 Sep 2011, 17:09 (Ref:2958626)

Ooh no. You don't think they'd be that sneaky do you?

Moosehead · 20 Sep 2011, 17:43 (Ref:2958647)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Found out today that you can only get the official clamps for a 4kg extinguisher. Anyone need a 2.25 extinguisher?

Surely you could just make some bolt together clamps rather than going to the expense of a new bottle?

SZRacer · 20 Sep 2011, 17:47 (Ref:2958649)

Hi Peter,

Just bought some 150mm diameter jubilee clips, and they look fine at holding the 2.25l bottle in place.

Re-read the bit in scrutineering notes, and all it says is that the bottle must be retained by a clamp with screw fitting. Jubilee clip seems to fulfill this criterium (thanks, Mike, Tim et al).

If the scrute is happy with this, then if it helps, I did indeed buy a couple of spare. So, if you're stuck, I might be able to help...

for a very reasonable sum.....

Seriously, though, if any 10/10thers in Spa are really stuck, first one to find me with a beer, frites & mayo (what? I have the body of a god - Just that the god in question is Buddha!), gets the clamps!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Ooh no. You don't think they'd be that sneaky do you?

Cliff Ryan · 20 Sep 2011, 18:55 (Ref:2958693)

I've had some simple bolt on clips made up to fit around the original over centre ones - hope they suffice - maybe you could do something similar, Peter?

terence · 20 Sep 2011, 18:58 (Ref:2958698)

A lot of period F need a 4litre bottle as minimum if plumbed in,unless thats been changed. Anyway,heard today that the area directly behind the scrutineering bay has been set aside for various supplier's for cages,extinguishers/brackets etc.:rofl
There was once a directive concerning lock-wiring the over centre clips,something rarely done,perhaps something to do with these new clamps?

**Peter Mallett** · 20 Sep 2011, 20:43 (Ref:2958751)

Cliff. Bought a new bottle to fit the clips. CBA really. Car is in trailer. Ferry @ 10:30 tomorrow. See you there matey.

MGDavid · 21 Sep 2011, 00:25 (Ref:2958859)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Found out today that you can only get the official clamps for a 4kg extinguisher. Anyone need a 2.25 extinguisher?

don't know who told you that - DT's site lists SPA, Lifeline and OMP all in two sizes of bolted retainers. 160mm for the 4 litre and 130 mm for the 2.25 / 2.5 litre bottles.
Craftily DT's seem to make you buy a complete new mount bracket and straps - I phoned Lifeline and they popped a couple of straps in the post for a bit over a tenner...

Mike Bell · 21 Sep 2011, 05:02 (Ref:2958904)

DT supplied me with Lifeline straps only- two sizes to fit normal shape 4l and baby Zero Zero thingy. But that was few months ago.

terence · 21 Sep 2011, 06:30 (Ref:2958913)

Me too,had to open up the original bracket,simplicity itself.

p261brm · 24 Sep 2011, 13:34 (Ref:2960363)

I am not a great enthusiast of electrically operated systems, ever since a wire broke inside the little box of tricks, and set the whole lot off 15 mins before being called to the assembly area, covering the cockpit in nasty green liquid, and his self was not over enthusiastic either, about sitting in it. I became even more dis-chuffed when a brand new all singing dancing system filled with the latest 'gas' fired off, [my fault], but £320 Bl-blank quid to get the bottle refilled, and then the pressure disappeared overnight [not my fault]. advice? stick to cable operated system, make sure plug is out of box of tricks when wireing up, and as a matter of fact, I've never seen an in car system put a fire out yet, fires in F1 classic examples.

GORDON STREETER · 24 Sep 2011, 19:24 (Ref:2960466)

Quote:

Originally Posted by p261brm

and as a matter of fact, I've never seen an in car system put a fire out yet, fires in F1 classic examples.

Exactly, I have posted on this before especially on the stuff that replaced Halon.
I recon you could do better by p***ing on it

grantp · 24 Sep 2011, 20:15 (Ref:2960479)

Now the scrutes have done their work ... what was the outcome of the FiA clamps edict? Was that the reason for the lengthy queue mentioned elsewhere?

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