2012 IndyCar schedule

[NaBUru38]

A quick sumup of Wikipedia's article on new races:

o- Quebec City. With Montreal and Trois-Rivières so close, I'd prefer it didn't happen.
o- Cleveland. Only money is missing, and for now it seems unlikely.
o- Detroit. Roger Penske would surely run this thing. Since he collected Chevrolet single-handedly, he may do it again.
o- Houston. There was a piece of news a few days ago that Mi-Jack is serious about making it this time.
o- Calgary or Vancouver. If the Edmonton government keeps unhappy about the race, Octane can move it to another, more populated Western Canadian city.
o- Porto Alegre. The mayor of the city and Terry Angstadt just announced the layout. They want the race by early March 2012 as the season opener. That's 800km away from my hometown!!!
o- The old CART circuits - Road America, Laguna Seca, Fontana, Michigan, etc.

[Purist]

Trois Rivieres is too short and tight; Turn 3 I'm sure would be considered unacceptably narrow. And Montreal can't happen unless an existing series leaves the place.

Cleveland is going to be a stretch to happen; there definitely seems to be intent to get back to Road America though. I don't know about Calgary, but I think the roads are more or still in place to do one of the Concorde Pacific Place layouts in Vancouver again, if it comes to moving the event from Edmonton.

i'd certainly trade out the motorcycle course at Sears Point for going back to Laguna Seca. Somebody NEEDS to work on getting back to Portland.

I could see Detroit happening with Penske's backing. Houston wouldn't be bad, especially if they can sort out that chicanery on the front stretch at Reliant Arena; they need the full length of that straight to make that a good overtaking spot.

[NaBUru38]

What I meant is that I wouldn't like to have three street races in Quebec so close to each other. A new Quebec City race would damage the reputation of the other two, especially Trois-Rivières.

Not matter how much I'd love Laguna Seca replace Sears Point, SMI is a partner and IndyCar wouldn't do that without a proper season other than a tradition lost ten years ago.

[racerkeke]

Originally Posted by Purist

I don't know about Calgary, but I think the roads are more or still in place to do one of the Concorde Pacific Place layouts in Vancouver again, if it comes to moving the event from Edmonton.
(snip)
I could see Detroit happening with Penske's backing.

Vancouver, uh-uh. Turns 6 to 9 are GONE, part of the Olympic Village complex now. 7 and 8 are actually under buildings. Turns 3 and 4 now have structures on them and huge condo developments right there. And with a treehugger for a mayor, it ain't gonna happen unless the municipality has a financial meltdown like California's.

So I vote for Portland ("Control, 1 waving. Close the chicane.") and Detroit -- as a former Windsorite, from the other side of the river.
keke

[Purist]

I assume you're talking about the more recent version of Vancouver. I can pretty much follow the pre-1998 course in its entirety on Google Street Level (or whatever it's called). I should that that, given the Olympics, Vancouver's imagery on Google would be rather up-to-date. (At least the old Hockenheim still exists on Google though).

As for Quebec, my vote would go for Mt. Tremblant, if they don't use the Turn 1 chicane.

[racerkeke]

Google Street View for Vancouver dates from before the Olympics, I think. I was just in that area today and it would be almost impossible to run any iteration of the track anymore. I really wish they'd look twice at putting it at the PNE -- great elevation changes and lots of existing infrastructure.

keke

[Japanese Samurai]

Mobility land co., ltd (Twin ring motegi) announced that it did not hold Indy Japan after 2012. It says that the tough business climate is a reason.
Press release(Japanese)
http://www.mobilityland.co.jp/pressr..._indyjapan.pdf

[NaBUru38]

Too bad for the Japanese.

So no Motegi opens about two weekends for more races.

[gttouring]

Too bad about motegi. I like that track and the racing is ok to me. It is natural that IRL has a non us oval I even thought Rio was alright. Oh well. Let's see if they can make something good happen. Milwaukee? ROAD ATlanta maybe...

[Purist]

Milwaukee is already on the 2011 calendar.

And if they're going to emasculate Road Atlanta in order to run there, then please, NO! Like Sears Point, Road Atlanta has a motorcycle layout, and I find it pretty awful as well.

[fieldodreams79]

RoadATL can't and won't happen, even through the Micky Mouse Moto chicanes, there are too many areas lacking proper fencing for spectator safety. I'd prefer they stop butchering my home track and think they'll stick with Barber for a Southeastern event.

This series would peak more interest from me if they included some more of the classic road courses like Road America, Cleveland and Detroit. Still half and half road to circle tracks would please most, but I'd prefer more road courses than speedways.

[Jacques Rabbit]

Randy Bernard insists they'll replace Motegi with another oval to try to maintain some balance. I do think they're running out of options, though, if they can't make up with ISC to get Phoenix or Chicagoland or any of those tracks. Nashville's a possibility, but it won't be one if Firestone truly are gone at the end of the season.

I don't think we'll see too much change, or too many races added. It's the first year with a new car, so there will always be that initial step back before the series can go forward, and piling on the new races is only going to further that financial strain. I wouldn't expect a Road America (now in with NASCAR, doing Nationwide and Grand-Am) or any other road courses (in particular Road America because of Milwaukee) added unless one is dropped. I'd assume they'll stay at their current level until teams are settled with the new car, and the new TV deal is sorted.

[NaBUru38]

The Porto Alegre deal looks like the promoter just needs to call the major companies to get sponsorship and jump to the ship.

[mitchbr]

If IICS goes back to Houston, that layout needs to be changed bigtime. It needs more places to overtake, and challenge the drivers more. I've made my own layout of the track on Google Earth, using the original layout as a benchmark and just tinkering here and there, and it looks SO much better. I just uploaded it to Flickr, let's see if it works...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/61123144@N08/5628947447/

Still runs Anticlockwise, has 16 turns, and 3 great places for overtaking: turn 2 (just after the turn 1 kink), turn 6 (after going around the Astrodome), and turn 8 (a good straight just after 7 into a tight, slow corner). Track is about 2.23 miles, according to Google Earth.

Hope you all like it as much as I do

Also, Cleveland NEEDS to be on the schedule. I've been saying ever since reunification that Mid Ohio should switch with Cleveland. No disrespect, MOSC is a great sports car course. But an Indy course? not so much.

Surfers would be nice too, maybe stop by Calder's superspeedway while down under.

[MCWB]

Originally Posted by mitchbr

maybe stop by Calder's superspeedway while down under.

Have you seen its condition lately? I hope the new car resembles a dune buggy.

[Purist]

I'm sorry, Mitchbr, but you really haven't helped anything. In fact, all those extra niggly slow corners will likely spread the field out more. The biggest thing they need to do is figure out how to NOT have that chicane on the front stretch, so that Turn 2 is a good overtaking spot.

Your Turn 8 won't work, because the straight into it isn't really long enough, and you've made this worse by tightening up your Turn 7. Turn 5 on the actual course was pretty open, which meant it was almost like you had a straight from Turn 4 to Turn 6. Your Turn 9-13 complex is rather pointless; it's just adding length and complexity to the track, while probably actually hurting the track's racing potential. And you hurt the race potential with it by lengthening the lap and lap time without adding overtaking potential, because you've reduced the number of laps that will be run.

For the final sector, I'd just as soon leave it as it was, with the more open version of the final turn from 2006. Alternatively, after your Turn 8 (Turn 6 on the actual circuit), I'd have a lazy bend to the right take the track up to near your Turn 13, have a hairpin, and bring the track back over to that open final corner on a "straight", without your 14/15 esse.

I'll agree that I want Cleveland back, but Mid Ohio can work perfectly well for open-wheelers. It will also help when we get the new chassis that is designed from the outset to race on road courses, and not just ovals.

[ptclaus98]

I wish we could have a real purpose built road course here in Tennessee. Maybe one day.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by mitchbr

Also, Cleveland NEEDS to be on the schedule. I've been saying ever since reunification that Mid Ohio should switch with Cleveland. No disrespect, MOSC is a great sports car course. But an Indy course? not so much.

Surfers would be nice too, maybe stop by Calder's superspeedway while down under.

I heard specifics about Cleveland but like most things open wheel these days, those thoughts get flushed down the toilet, but I do recall something about there being issues with the city or the airport where the race would never happen again or at least anytime soon.

Surfers, now that V8SC has it's grip on the event as they had desired for so long and there is little chance after the QLD government got burned by A1GP, the race would ever happen again for irlcar. The track is shorter now, which pleases some locals and it's cheaper to run.

Calder, there are threads on here about the track, if you do a search. It is in no condition for racing anything and it's in pretty decrepit shape. It would probably cost more to fix than just rebuild. I've been to Calder and even back in the CART days, I don't think the track is built for open wheel cars. So that is a no go.

[tkelland]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I heard specifics about Cleveland but like most things open wheel these days, those thoughts get flushed down the toilet, but I do recall something about there being issues with the city or the airport where the race would never happen again or at least anytime soon.

Surfers, now that V8SC has it's grip on the event as they had desired for so long and there is little chance after the QLD government got burned by A1GP, the race would ever happen again for irlcar. The track is shorter now, which pleases some locals and it's cheaper to run.

Calder, there are threads on here about the track, if you do a search. It is in no condition for racing anything and it's in pretty decrepit shape. It would probably cost more to fix than just rebuild. I've been to Calder and even back in the CART days, I don't think the track is built for open wheel cars. So that is a no go.

I read somewhere that the promoter, who also promoted the Houston Grand Prix, was more keen to hold a race in Houston, than Cleveland. Though, if a title sponsor for Cleveland were to emerge, a race there would be pushed to IndyCar officials. As an attendant of this race in Cleveland multiple times, I can say Cleveland REALLY is behind this event.

[mitchbr]

Purist,
I appreciate the honesty. Now that I think about it, you are right, but I would like to see some sort of change to the Houston layout if IICS were to go there.

About people complaining about Calder, I know it's been unused for at least a couple years and is starting to crumble a little bit. An obvious renovation would be needed, but a 44,000 seat clockwise oval just outside Melbourne could make for an interesting turnout. More hopeful thinking than anything, especially with the almighty dollar standing in the way everywhere we look anymore.

[mitchbr]

And as for Cleveland, yea, Mike Lanigan wants Houston more than Cleveland. I hope there's some logical reason involved with that, because Cleveland has been around longer, and thrived in the CART days. And there was always a good show. Let's hope that whatever comes about is the best decision.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by mitchbr

Purist,
I appreciate the honesty. Now that I think about it, you are right, but I would like to see some sort of change to the Houston layout if IICS were to go there.

About people complaining about Calder, I know it's been unused for at least a couple years and is starting to crumble a little bit. An obvious renovation would be needed, but a 44,000 seat clockwise oval just outside Melbourne could make for an interesting turnout. More hopeful thinking than anything, especially with the almighty dollar standing in the way everywhere we look anymore.

I've been to Calder and it's not fit for open wheel cars and the place would have to be totally rebuilt. Not a renovation, but rebuilt. There isn't the money for it either on behalf of the circuit owner, nor the local government or a promoter would touch irlcar with a ten foot pole. I'd focus on actual things and events and not "fantasy" schedules and events that will never happen.

[marcostraz]

I'm not so anxious to get back Cleveland...it's too similar to Edmonton...if we lose Edmonton, ok, but now we have already a typical aeroportual circuit...I prefer Houston, that is a big market in a big city...and obviously I'd like to see other ovals...

[tkelland]

I can understand why people don't want to have Edmonton and Cleveland back on the schedule at the same time, but from someone who has been to the event, Cleveland is a fan's best friend. It's like being at an oval in the sense that you can see the entire track without obstruction from your grand stand seat.

[Yannick]

Here's hoping that Randy Bernard keeps the balance between ovals and road/street courses. He is quoted as saying it's either Phoenix and maybe another ISC track or no ISC tracks at all. I wonder what other ISC oval he might be after.

Scheduling IndyCar is difficult because so many good tracks are located relatively close to each other. The Sonoma-Laguna-Fontana cluster is not the only one. There is also the one just south of the Great Lakes: Milwaukee-Chicagoland-Road America-Michigan Speedway-Detroit.

Unless those markets were doing much better, I'm afraid that the Series is likely to host only one race in the areas. And at the time, that's Sonoma because of the deal with Bruton Smith, and the Milwaukee Mile because the fans wanted it. Now that is something. They put it back on the calendar because the fans wanted it. Imagine any other motor sports series promoter, say, Bernie Ecclestone doing that. He just wouldn't.

Fans have been requesting Phoenix recently as the series does not really go to the southwest at the time, so let's hope he gets it.
And most important of all, let's take these one track at a time.

Quebec? Well, I wonder why there is still no track on in the northwest. For a Canadian track, I'd prefer Vancouver, but I guess they put some buildings in its path at some point. Besides, the oval-twisties balance must be kept and it's already swinging a lot towards road courses these days.