BMW E28 racer

[BILTEL]

I'm toying with parking up the Starion and entering my E28 535i in to Pre93's and the "Alternative 6 hour". It may not be the most competitive car, but it's normally aspirated, 1986 and sat doing nothing. I've trawled through google and found very little. There seems to have been a few 528's in some Spa races. So come on, what do you know?? I know it won't be the most competitive car, but a nice old tool.
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[SAMD]

If you build the right engine it could be very competitive. No difference in it and the 635, same floor pan - more or less, and not much difference in weight. If you have it sitting there, use it.

[terence]

Be nice to see it out there,it is six hours,reliability being a key word.

[andy97]

Would some M5 suspension & brake bits be a useful upgrade? Either way I would have thought it would be good, relaible option for the Alternative 6 hour race.

[Al Weyman]

As I said on the other thread Tel, it would be a great Group 1 car where the 'M' 635s probably wouldnt be allowed in because of production figures. Personally thats the route I would take and leave 93's to the Cossies and M3's!

[andy97]

Would also go well in the 3 litre to 4 litre class of the "Future Classics" series, I'd have thought. Also definately eligible for the CSCC's Spa 1 hour race and possibly for the Nurburgring 300Km race.

[BILTEL]

Thanks for all the great, positive replies. Is it really going to be eligible for so many races? It is a 1986 car. I thought it was too new for Group 1's Big Al. I love Pre 93's and was looking at "Future Classics" as Andy knows, but this does sound viable.

Andy and Terrance what is the actual cut off date for the 6 hour?

[terence]

It is actually 1986,so you only just scrape in.
The Regulations are on the site if you would like to read through them for any future reference's though.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by BILTEL

Is it really going to be eligible for so many races? It is a 1986 car.

What years did BMW actually make the E28 535 model? If they made the E28 535 in, say, 1980. Its irrelevant that your actual car is a 1986 registered version, as long as the 1986 spec is the same as the 1981. In my personal opinion, of course!

[Paul D]

The E28 came out in late '81 or early '82, but there was no 535i model until I think late '84, the first of the M535i model being '85. Not to be confused with the original M535i of '80/'81, as this was an E12, so different bodyshell. So I think you're definitely safe to use '84 as an 'available from' date.

And yes, I think it would fit nicely into the Future Classics series, as I race an E21 3 series in there, and it would be good to see a few more BMW's out there with me - can't understand why there aren't already really, as apart from occasional visits from a couple of E30s, I seem to be on my own!

[Redneck Rocket]

I'd love to see a 535 racer. I spent most of my teenage driving years(96-99) borrowing my Dad's '86 535i. I think you could probably make a pretty robust racer out of it - so much of that car was way overengineered and ahead of it's time. I remember taking the door apart to replace the window motor and there were huge side impact beams build into the doors (could be a good way to drop weight actually - probably redundant if you're putting in a cage with doorbars. That engine was seriously torquey and very undertuned as well.

[Al Weyman]

Yeah thats correct by the look of it Tel, shame. Funny enough my mate hadone brand new in '82 and we took it to Torquay for a boys weekend and I drove some of the way and it never struck me as particularly fast, this might explain it.

[Paul D]

But in '82, that would have to have been an E12, as the E28 535i wasn't available in '82. Performance about the same though - although I would have said that, in '82, it would have felt like a pretty quick car. If you think about it, what else was out there in those days that came standard with 220 horses, a close ratio 'box and LSD. Off the top of my head, performance was something like close to 150 mph top end and sub eight second to 60. That was pretty respectable in those days IIRC.

[Al Weyman]

Ha ha, you didnt see the other cars we took, Camaro Z/28, 6.6 litre Transam, Datsun Z (that was the slowest!). Maybe it was a smaller engined model it was a long time ago, first time I ever see a mpg computer in a car as I recollect and it was an X reg car so I think thats '82.

[BILTEL]

More great replies!! I seem to have struck a chord here. Shame about that then Al, as I fancied a run out with the Capris and Rovers. Still ok for the others and if it'll live with Brian Jordans 635 I'll be happy. Got a bit to do though.

[Paul D]

If it was an X reg, then most likely to have been an early E28, as there weren't many E12s still being sold when 'X' came out, and from memory, I don't think any of the E12 models had trip computers. I had an E12 M535i which was the top model in its day, and that didn't have one anyway. So, if it was an E28 on an X, then biggest it could have been is a 528i, so about 30 horses down (from memory) on the 3.5 litre models. I remember the first (manual) 528i I drove felt fairly quick, but when I drove the manual M535i, it was a significant step up.

So, 2.8 litre six against V8s with twice the capacity - yes, I can understand the Beemer may have felt a bit slow!

[SAMD]

I drove E28s for about 15 years, starting with a 528 about 1983 and finishing with an m535 from about 1986 to 1997. I got my maximum top end out of a 528. Just under 150mph down a small decline on Chrismas day (nice and cold) As Al says a 535 is not the fastest car in the world but it takes a really sharp car to get past one. I was passed once only in that 15 years when I was trying. (by a 911) They have 220bhp or so standard and apparently you can get 300+ from a Group A engine in fact I have heard 350 mentioned on this website. With a bullet proof bottom end, a lightened shell and 300+ bhp these cars would be a weapon on the 6hr race.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Paul D

But in '82, that would have to have been an E12, as the E28 535i wasn't available in '82. Performance about the same though - although I would have said that, in '82, it would have felt like a pretty quick car. If you think about it, what else was out there in those days that came standard with 220 horses, a close ratio 'box and LSD. Off the top of my head, performance was something like close to 150 mph top end and sub eight second to 60. That was pretty respectable in those days IIRC.

My boss of the time had a 535M,superb car,loads of fun and they were always reliable as a racer.Probably my car of choice for something like the six hour.

[Mike Bell]

The thread seems to going from 535is to M535s. I didn't think they were the same car and would be suprised if M was built in sufficient quantities? Weren't the period production class racers 'ordinary' 535s?

[SAMD]

For the purposes of this thread they are one and the same. The car that does not comply is the 'M5' which were not built is sufficient numbers. This car used the M1 derived multivalve engine. Whereas the 535 and the M535 both ran the 2 Valve engines

[Mike Bell]

I understand what you are saying! What was trying to point out is that although the M535 was based on same basic mechanics as 535 it was a seperate model and anyone thinking of entering an 'M535' for 'the' 6hr race needs to clarify that it would be accepted- I still think production figures for it were below 5000 p/a. Depends how organisers interpret.......

[SAMD]

Yes I see what you are saying, although I think the bodykit and wheels were the only thing that were materially different and they could be bought as options anyway I am sure.
I think from a previous thread on the 635CSI thing, Terence seemed to be saying that unless the bodyshell could be proved to be registered before 31/12/86 there could be a problem. But I think Andy has clarified that with post No. 9 on this thread (I hope so anyway) I assume Terence was being over zealous, as the question was one of the first regarding the eligibility thing.

[pmv]

E28 was definately available autumn 1981. At that stage the biggest engine was in 528i model. Basically it´s the same straight-six in 525i, 528i and 535i models. Only M5 was with Motorsport engine with four valve per cylinder technology. M535i was different model, but the drivetrain is basically the same. It´s not deemed as a real "motorsport" model. The most distinctive feature in M535i is the aerodynamic body kit.

E28 had one competition homologated model, which was 528i. The picture of Bastos E28 is such a model, and yes, it Won Spa 24 hour race.

I don´t know the excact rules of the series in question, but if there are rules about the body style, it is good to note that front lip(the part below front-bumper) changed in autumn 1985 to more chunky version.

If I recall correctly there wasn´t too many modifications to original races 528i in engine department, as the rules didn´t allow to change parts from production version. The power was up to 240 bhp, but that´s coming from the memory.

The homologated 635Csi has the identical engine to 535i(depending on the country, age and emission regulations). Downside of the engine is the largish capacity of one cylinder. Engine has a quite a long stroke. Mean piston speed goes beyond healthy quite soon if there is modifations to make engine rev higher. Also the straight-six´s long crankshaft is prone to flexing. BMW had that factor limiting the revs in 70´s with their IMSA-engine.

It´s a basic engine and tuners like Ac Schintzer, Hartge, Alpina etc. extracted about 260 bhp from it, even in street versions. So 300 bhp for racing is possible and still have it quite reliable.

One note: M535i was produced more than 5000 if you take account models with katalysator and automatic gearboxes.

[andy97]

Well, the "Alternative 6 hours" in the Uk is open to cars up to 31 dec 1986 so the relevant E28 question is when was the 535 actually available. I think we have answered that & it was available in 1986 therefore its eligible for the 6 hour race.

The 1981 date is only relevant if someone wants to race a 5 series in Appx J (?) races (excuse my ignorance here). For eg, if someone wanted to race a 5 series in CSCC Future Classics in the UK, they could race a 535 as eligibility is for car types produced up to 1990 but If they wanted also to be eligible for the CSCCs 300Km Nurburgring invite then they would have to have a 528 as that invite is for cars up to 1981 and the 535 wasn't available then.

Simples! I think!

[terence]

Put simply,my point was that we will not accept a newer than 86 car that's been disguised to look like an older version,of anything. Thanks pmv for the clarification on production figures.