V8 Supercars going for sequential gearboxes, whats next?

[Peddler]

I was reading in this weeks AutoFiction that V8Supercars are going to loose the “H” pattern gearboxes for what they believe to be a more cost effective sequential gearbox.

Now haven driven a sequential gearbox car on the track I can say that they are magic to drive but I think that using them in V8's is getting a bit to far away from the fundamentals of the production based models that the cars are suppose to resemble.

Seriously… parity and Tony Cochrane’s ego are going to ruin our premier class of motorsport in my opinion, unless it gets back to something that even at the slightest resembles an out of the showroom HSV or FPV.

Everyone is talking about cost cutting and even playing fields and it has also been said by numerous people within the main game that under its current format V8Supercars is not sustainable given the for-ever escalating costs and the limitations of the isolated Australian market and economy.

Why I am pumped up and having a rant… why the hell do we have to have a Bahrain race??? Yes the marketing aspects are attractive to Holden and Ford but what about the Australian motorsport fans first. Stuff the Arab’s! Let them get there own race series happening and leave Australia’s premier motorsport class in Australia for Australians!

Rant over, time for a another Tooheys New!

[FPV GTHO]

I think its a bout time they went for the sequential. IIRC, they cost more than the H pattern, but last considerably longer so the net result is a lower cost.

As for the implication on the direction of the category, i dont see it as that big of a deal. Its like the argument over VE being chopped to fit in the category, if you want to change that than lets give Holden back a strut type front end and let everyone run IRS. You may as well just rewrite the whole thing as changing one thing wont do much.

[Andylad]

The main gain is not gearbox longevity but engine. If you cannot wrong slot the box, you cannot buzz the engine. The difference between the H box and sequential is only linkage, so the cost differential is minimal in the context of the cost of a car.

I am not so sure about the concerns about the race cars moving further away from the production cars, the resemblance between the race cars and the production cars is purely visual, anyway.

[Chatters]

Originally Posted by Andylad

the resemblance between the race cars and the production cars is purely visual, anyway.

And even that's questionable, according to Motorsport News...

[cptkablamo]

I believe the resemblence to their road going counterparts was lost long ago....but anyway...don't most high end cars have an option for a sequential gear shift anyway...so really isn't that to be expected - its a technology that is commonplace in motoring so how can it not be used in supposed top class racing???

[Pro Racer]

there is minimal resemberlence to the road car and i think they would be good to go with sequential boxes,one more difference from the road going car wouldn't hurt as there is very minimal resemblence anyway IMO.

[Falcadore]

This is not a production based category and has not been for almost a decade, any suggestion otherwise is fantasy.

Seqential is a positive step. The cost savings on engine life as over revs are effectively removed, should ten fold at least offset the increased cost per unit, before the life of the units are even brought into the equation.

Sequentials are hardly unknown in production cars. Heck even CVTs are in use production cars. Should we instead be dusting off carburettors?

[Pro Racer]

ever since the catergory became V8 Supercars there has been limited resemblence.

[Peddler]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Should we instead be dusting off carburettors?

works for Nascar

ok, i get the general idea that the new style box is the go but in regards to the "production" aspect of what is left of it within the class... think about about what other classes you see Holden and Ford battles??? This is our Premier class of motorsport! It has no backbone other than a class that was created to generate a market for 2nd hand Supercars.

Tell me what other classes of Australian motorsport you see "production" based Commodores and Falcons racing against each other that is known about by more than the motorsport purist ???

Was the basics of Australian touring cars driven from production based models or sports sedan styled vehicles???

In my opinion... i think that getting back to basics and taking away the bling factor will make the racing ten times more entertaining and at the same time eliminate a hell of a lot of cost giving the average punter who has driving talent a chance against the mega dollar budgets of the "so called" non factory teams

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Peddler

Tell me what other classes of Australian motorsport you see "production" based Commodores and Falcons racing against each other ???

Saloon Cars??

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Peddler

Tell me what other classes of Australian motorsport you see "production" based Commodores and Falcons racing against each other that is known about by more than the motorsport purist ???

Do you think the basic motorsport fan in America or Europe knows about more than NASCAR, BTCC, WTCC and DTM?

[Rombles1]

Maybe they should make them run the 6-speed Auto's the road cars are now running - they could have the option of driving it as an auto, or flicking the shifter to use it as a sequential manual. Doing this, they could actually get back CLOSER to the production car origins!

[Razor]

I think it is a good step. The V8's are not even close to road cars. Take Tander for example, when he was doing a promo shoot for HSVDT, he had a look at his SS Commodore and his V8 Supercar and he said there is no panel that has been tweaked or modified. So I think it is a good idea to take out the H gear pattern.

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

Maybe they should make them run the 6-speed Auto's the road cars are now running - they could have the option of driving it as an auto, or flicking the shifter to use it as a sequential manual. Doing this, they could actually get back CLOSER to the production car origins!

Now Rombles you are onto something there.

To actually run through a 6 speed slushie, they would need to lose about 60% of the current HP.

Throw in taking away 60 % of Aero grip & 60 % of mechanical grip, and the scientists at the Cranker Institute have calculated that passing will increase by exactly 60 %.


Thats right race fans, real racing with real production based cars, and with a knock-on effect of costing a great heap less too.


As a side note, I was at a BBQ just last night and was chatting to a friend who works at Hollingers.
He told me that this year has been a record year for re-builds & broken bit's & pieces in V8 Supercars.

He couldn't offer a suggestion as to why, just that their Christmas bonus is looking very healthy this year.....


Oh, and Channel Seven haven't come cap-in-hand for a gearbox for their " Technical Center" yet.

But strangely, neither did Ch Serious, ever.
Me thinks their boyfriend might have lent them one, as part of his ongoing relationship.....


Where will he get all that free publicity from next year ???????

[Rombles1]

My concern with doing this, is that the conspiracy-theorists (you know who you are - and SO DO "THEY"!) will suggest that this is being done to help HRT, since most of the gearbox dramas have affected them!


btw if my conversion is correct, they can run 300kw through these roadcar gearboxes (or 307kw for the pedantic!). If V8 Supercars are generating 600HP, that is about 450kw - so they only need to lose 30% not 60%!

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

My concern with doing this, is that the conspiracy-theorists (you know who you are - and SO DO "THEY"!) will suggest that this is being done to help HRT, since most of the gearbox dramas have affected them!


btw if my conversion is correct, they can run 300kw through these roadcar gearboxes (or 307kw for the pedantic!). If V8 Supercars are generating 600HP, that is about 450kw - so they only need to lose 30% not 60%!

What, only 30 %.

Maybe those figures were from the Ponds Institute, not the Cranker Institute........

[Rombles1]

What sort of power do they run in the NZ V8's?

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

btw if my conversion is correct, they can run 300kw through these roadcar gearboxes (or 307kw for the pedantic!). If V8 Supercars are generating 600HP, that is about 450kw - so they only need to lose 30% not 60%!

And only the BA XR6T ran anything close to the recommended torque loading through the gearbox. All the new Falcons and Commodores (well the decent ones at least) would still have a fair bit to go before reaching their limits, Both the 6 speeds in the Falcon for instance wont have trouble putting 600hp to the ground, so you dont have to limit them at all actually with "stock" gearboxes

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

My concern with doing this, is that the conspiracy-theorists (you know who you are - and SO DO "THEY"!) will suggest that this is being done to help HRT, since most of the gearbox dramas have affected them!

Interesting point about HRT Hollinger Gearboxes...

HRT do all the rebuild & " R & D " type work in-house.

Including sourcing internal mechanicals from other areas, which makes things a little more interesting, looking at their component failure rate this season...

Essentially the decision to shift to a sequential is a very good one, as pointed out many times above.

Lets face it V8's are racing cars masquerading as saloon cars, don't kid yourself that they are anything else.



To fit sequential actually makes them less like NASCARS (for those that make that comparison) now if they were moving to a 4 speed Jerico, well go figure

[peckstar]

but wont its take the fun out of driving them

taxi drivers drive autos

race car drivers drive manuals

and a sequential box, is really just a glorified auto

[pete55]

F1 drivers don't drive manuals.

[peckstar]

i believe you meant F1 prima donnas but anyway

very automated gearbox arent they pete.

how much does it cost to buy a drive in f1 now days anyway

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by peckstar

and a sequential box, is really just a glorified auto

Oh really? I dont see them using planetary gear sets and torque converters.

[Andylad]

Originally Posted by peckstar

and a sequential box, is really just a glorified auto

I think there might be a disconnect here. A sequential manual gearbox is just a manual gearbox with a selector linkage that allows ratios to be selected by moving the gear lever fore and aft, as opposed to in the H pattern.

A sequential manual gearbox has absolutely nothing in common with an automatic gearbox.

Some road cars have auto boxes that can be shifted manually and some road cars have a manual gearbox that can be shifted by means of paddles, electronically controlled.

Neither of these is what we are talking about. The box in question would be the same Hollinger with a modified selector linkage, not a big deal in engineering terms and definitely no torque converter involved!

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by pete55

F1 drivers don't drive manuals.

Yeah Pete and it is one more aid which takes away from real driver skill. Every one complains there is no overtaking now. Take away the odd missed shift/ buzzed engine and you will have even less. Remember Skaife vee Ambrose at Hidden Valley a few years ago.