Donington ETCC

Carrie · 27 Jun 2003, 20:14 (Ref:645072)

Well, here it is, a chance to get trackside and see the ETCC. The only time I ever see the ETCC is when they pop over to these shores.
So, I haven't got a clue how the Championship is going. Anyone care to provide a bit of a season so far review.

**gomick** · 28 Jun 2003, 00:39 (Ref:645198)

drivers championship

1 Gabriele Tarquini 44 2 wins
2 Andy Priaulx 40 1 win
3 Dirk Muller 38 2 wins
4 Jorg Muller 36 2 wins
5 Nicola Larini 31
6 Roberto Colciago 29 1 wins
7 Fabrizio Giovanardi 28
8 Antonio Garcia 21
9 Duncan Huisman 14
10 Tom Coronel 10
11 Alessandro Balzan 9
12 Fabio Francia 4
13 Jordi Gené 4
14 Paolo Ruberti 4

havent seen a race, but from what i have read, its been pretty good

SALEEN S7R · 28 Jun 2003, 16:03 (Ref:645499)

Intresting to note that the fastest ETCC time is 9 tenths faster than last years BTCC pole time. I wonder if ETCC cars do convert and join the BTCC and BTCC join ETCC next year will rule changes be neccacry? To me it seems that the ETCC cars could well be faster than the BTCC machinery.

ETCC Qualifying todays result: http://www.crash.net/news_detail.asp...1&language_id=

BTCC Qualifying 2002: http://www.crash.net/news_detail.asp...&language_id=1

Now Im guessing the BTCC cars will go around 5 tenths a lap faster than last years BTCC pole time, so bearing that in mind the 2 championships are on a pretty equal footing I think. Should be a good couple of races tommorow.

BootsOntheSide · 28 Jun 2003, 16:50 (Ref:645515)

ETCC and BTCC cars will generally be quite equal, but the balance will vary at different cirucits as they are strong in different areas. Hopefully the rulemakers will be on top of this and we won't see a repeat of the farces of 2001's attempts to putting the Production cars into the fray.

Andy Priaulx will be very keen to win in front of his home crowd. He's done really well thsi season, as the leading BMW in the table, and shows that the BTCC standard is stillhigh. Maybe his team will run the BMW in Britain enxt eyar, I'd love to see that.

SALEEN S7R · 28 Jun 2003, 17:56 (Ref:645536)

Maybe but the teams offical line is they are happy in the ETCC and they are doing well. So why would they want to leave? U cant really blame them either, sure BTCC is strong also, but I cant see any teams moving to the BTCC, and I cant see anyone from BTCC Moving to ETCC any year soon, apart from MG perhaps.

Nobody is debating that the BTCC standards are still high, but are they as high as they used to be? Personally I dont think so, they arent far off but I dont think they are as good as say the 90s.

**touringlegend** · 28 Jun 2003, 19:04 (Ref:645576)

Back to the point of the thread, it's good to see Andy Priaulx so far up the points standings and the leading BMW drive. I know he will really be enjoying being the "top dog" so to speak at BMW, so this means his confidence must be sky high.

ATF · 28 Jun 2003, 20:39 (Ref:645621)

Rydell's done a magnificent job to qualify 9th in that car! Well done Rickard!

kmchow · 28 Jun 2003, 21:29 (Ref:645639)

Quote:

Originally posted by SALEEN S7R
Maybe but the teams offical line is they are happy in the ETCC and they are doing well. So why would they want to leave? U cant really blame them either, sure BTCC is strong also, but I cant see any teams moving to the BTCC, and I cant see anyone from BTCC Moving to ETCC any year soon, apart from MG perhaps.

I'm agree that it's not likely ETCC or BTCC teams will likely abandon their respective series. But what it means is that teams can now resell their cars much easier when they upgrade. While manufacturers can provide customer cars much more easier. I think that is the most important benefit. While it is a definite improvement that the cars will be "equalized", the best solution is still for a SINGLE set of rules to be adopted. I think that's what made ST so cool. You can drive a car straight from ST series in another series with no modifications of any sort!

Quote:

Nobody is debating that the BTCC standards are still high, but are they as high as they used to be? Personally I dont think so, they arent far off but I dont think they are as good as say the 90s.

Hmmm, I think the early 90s teams are of SLIGHTLY higher quality than the present ones. I don't think the gap is as big as you are suggesting? But for the record, are you suggesting that?

SALEEN S7R · 28 Jun 2003, 22:02 (Ref:645657)

As Touringlegend has pointed out, I went a little off topic. To prevent any possibilty of this thread going off of topic again I will not say anything further with regards to the BTCC or ETCC standard. Both series are highly professional. All I said is I dont think that the BTCC is quite a high of a standard as it was in the 90's, it isnt far off of that though I dont think. Dont get me wrong, Im not saying the quality has dramatically decreased, but I personally belive it has decreased ever so slightly.

Dani Filth · 29 Jun 2003, 17:24 (Ref:646249)

Giovanardi .. just as Tarquini got a lead in the championship ...

Please don't try to dodge the autocensor - Carrie

Carrie · 29 Jun 2003, 19:43 (Ref:646390)

Okay, who went to Donington and what did you think of it? I got well and truly bored with the GTs and from the top of the Old Hairpin it was impossible to hear the PA - my radio decided it didn't like its newly charged batteries.
Once again I've got to say that the ETCC just doesn't really do it for me. It was nice to see and all that, but I'd rather see the closer racing of the BTCC. If there was any overtaking in front of where we were sitting then it made no impact at all on me.

Les · 29 Jun 2003, 21:55 (Ref:646543)

couldn't hear the radio over the gt's anyway even on full volume!

ETCC - 2 13 lap races - glad I didn't buy a ticket. I was bored.....

Did like seeing Ken Lark in the VW CUP claw his way up the field though

JAG · 29 Jun 2003, 22:20 (Ref:646562)

The GTs were absolutely awsome with bumper to bumper racing for well over an hour. I suppose to enjoy sportscars you have to be interested in the tactics and long term race plan, rather than a 15 lap blast. Judging by the crowd most people seemed to love the GTs. Sportscars is more than just about the racing (which was great) its about looking all around the circuit/pits/paddock and soaking up the atmosohere with that wonderful soundtrack in the background.

I have to say the ETCC cars sounded very sweet but not nearly load enough. Many people started leaving when the ETCC races started.

Can't waith for next years SRW event with Masarati, and possibly Lamborghini, Aston Martin and even Mercedes joining the field.

It should ALWAYS be impossible to hear the PA if there are proper cars racing.

Speeddemon555 · 29 Jun 2003, 22:45 (Ref:646579)

Man, Nordauto is having an inner rivalry between Tarquini and Larini. Add insult to injury, Giovanardi punted his former Nordauto teammate Tarquini in race 2 at Donnington Park today.

JAG · 29 Jun 2003, 22:59 (Ref:646592)

Arn't NordAuto building the new Ferrari 575 GTS car for Ferrari.

How abouut Tarquini and Larini sharing a car!!!!!!!

SALEEN S7R · 30 Jun 2003, 00:10 (Ref:646633)

Jag I belive that the Prodrive team are building the Ferrari 575 for Ferrari. The JMB team will be the firs team to race one of the cars though from what I have heard, the car should be available for Spa 24hrs. And just in case people have forgotton, the Alfa Romeos are no longer Nordauto, they are now called Autodelta.

JAG · 30 Jun 2003, 00:35 (Ref:646645)

I'm sure its not Prodrive. I heard N-tech, formerly Nordauto (or maybe the engineeering division of whats now known as Autodelta).

Whatever they are now called its the same guys who build the Alfa ETCC cars.

PaulSands · 30 Jun 2003, 08:36 (Ref:646889)

I was watching the second ETCC race from one of the lower tier boxes at Redgate and they were awesome...however one thing I did notice was that while Tarquini's beached Alfa was being towed out of the gravel to be allowed to rejoin the track at Hollywood, Priaulx made a pass under yellows and seemed to get away with it. I was suprised just how unabated the whole pace through Redgate was under double waved yellows.

MrTTraces · 30 Jun 2003, 16:55 (Ref:647389)

well i was there too, sitting up at hollywood.

I agree it was boring! The GT's speak for themselves..(i read autosport instead), The ETCC was a small uncompetative unexciting grid, same with the V6 renaults and the VW's weren't that great either.

ONe thing which really bugged me was the oraganisation of the races. There was no clio race on sunday, which was the main day (which i strike as odd as the clios are great and exciting). And whos idea was it to put the 2 ETCC races back to back with a 50 min break in the middle.

If i'd organised it i would have put the vw races in the middle of the 2 ETCC races (as it is not televised on eurosport) and put a clio race on at the end of the day. But i don't organise it nor make the rules so...

And to top it off i got sun stoke on my face

(my own fault so no sympathy).

Another thing which bugged me was we didn't get our tickets checked on the way in, we just walked in. Now admittedly we didn't pay for the tickets as me and my friend paul won them on this very site. However if i had bought tickets in advanced i'd have been cross that i could have walked in without paying (as did a lot of people at the dunlop bridge). I'm suprised donnington made much money judging by the streams of people walking over without buying a ticket.

JAG · 30 Jun 2003, 18:07 (Ref:647482)

Well sportscar and touring car fans must want totally different things, as over on the sportscar GT section the event is being classed as a total success with superb bumper to bumper GT racing for well over an hour.

The ETCC was a little boring with, but no different from your average BTCC race. At least there were Alfas and BMWs rather than Protons and Rovers!

I believe I've noticed a little bias against the ETCC from the BTCC fanboys/girls. You can call the ETCC all your like, but ALL of the problems of the ETCC are replicated in the post Super Touring BTCC. Unless you prefer Max Power style oversized 'cosmetic' wings and splitters that the BTCC hav.e

**Craig** · 30 Jun 2003, 19:02 (Ref:647536)

I really don't care how the cars look (actually I prefer the ETCC in that regard) but what I want to see is doorhandle to doorhandle racing. I saw precious little of that at the weekend. Maybe this is normal in racing today but I have become used to the BTCC which has put on some sparkling displays lately. I wonder if the ETCC races are too short?

Les · 30 Jun 2003, 19:25 (Ref:647563)

I felt cheated that the two ETCC races were so short but there again by the half way stage they had got processional.

But I suppose I shouldn't as like 100s of others I got in free.

El_Gibleto · 30 Jun 2003, 21:11 (Ref:647736)

I found the two ETCC races to be excellent, the drives through the field by Jorg Muller, in Race 1, and by Andy Prilaux in the second race were well worth watching. Like many people I enjoy watching cars been driven well by top quality drivers, not the "dodgem" style racing found in some series.

The preparation of the cars is superb and I find the appearance of the cars to be much better than that of the btcc cars, with their ugly side "planks" and oversized "tea tray" rear wings. The whole "superweekend" package presents an attractive, well balenced package of racing, of differing types, obviously package for TV, but presented in a way that also makes it attractive to a live audience at the circuit. BMP/toca could learn a lot from this package.

SALEEN S7R · 30 Jun 2003, 22:15 (Ref:647818)

I too watched the races (although on Eurosport) and Ive got to say too that I strongly belive that the LG SRW is the best package in Europe (barring F1 with the F3000 etc). The ETCC for my money is a lot more professional than the BTCC, both in terms of preperation and driver talent. Just look at the FIA ETCC driving line up - it speaks for itself I feel. The FIA GT though is the diamond in the crown for the package from my point of view.

Sure the ETCC racing dosent have quite as much bumping and boring as the BTCC, but in a way thats a good thing. Theres too many amatuer drivers in the BTCC at the moment I think. Good job from the organisers, a good mix of touring car racing, sportscar and single seaters. Really something for everyone, at competitive prices too. (I was at Silverstone last year so going by that).

jase · 30 Jun 2003, 22:26 (Ref:647826)

Quote:

Originally posted by MrTTraces
....ONe thing which really bugged me was the oraganisation of the races. There was no clio race on sunday, which was the main day (which i strike as odd as the clios are great and exciting). And whos idea was it to put the 2 ETCC races back to back with a 50 min break in the middle.

If i'd organised it i would have put the vw races in the middle of the 2 ETCC races (as it is not televised on eurosport) and put a clio race on at the end of the day. But i don't organise it nor make the rules so.....

The way the rules are written is that the two ETCC races happen back to back, with parc ferme between them, then they are allowed to work on the cars to prepare for race 2. The grid for race 2 being decided on the result of race 1.

This stops the deliberate wrecking of cars in Race 1, stupid driving that is seen in the BTCC week in/out.

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