LANCIA D50

[Peter Mallett]

With thanks to Classic and Sportscar Magazine – May 2000.

OK folks.

I have never seen, let alone heard, a Lancia D50. In the tradition of 1950’s Formula one, they were broken up by that most pragmatic of team owners, Enzo Ferrari. We all know the story of the “Sharknose”, possibly the most famous of the marque. As soon as their useful life was over they went the way of all other Ferraris. To the scrap yard! So Ferrari had none of that emotional attachment that we enthusiasts have for cars.

In the late 1960’s Alain de Cadenet discovered a massive hoard of V8 engines and transaxles which Ferrari was about to scrap. They were spares from the Lancia racing team which Ferrari took over in 1955. The Lancia D50 was the car that had the fuel, oil and water tanks running “pannier style” down each side of the tub.

They were short wheel-based and most effective, although not as effective as the Maseratti 250F. To this day they are an anachronism. And now…………

Two of these cars, using the original V8 engines and transaxles, are being built by Guido Rosani in Italy. The finishing works are being carried out by Jim Stokes in England. They are original in terms of design and manufacture, but not year of manufacture. This raises some questions.

1 Should the FIA issue certificate for international racing?

2 Is it right to recreate these cars or should we bury the memory like the original owners did?

3 Would you pay to see these REPLICAS race?

4 Is it, in overall terms, a good thing to recreate these cars for the enjoyment of us enthusiasts?

I know what I think. How about you?

[yelwoci]

Pete,
My own view is that it is always a joy to see the old cars out in real or replicar form.

But it does cause a problem for some owners of real cars.
But if you run a real 250F how much of the car can be original as opposed to remanufactured or restored.
In an extreme sense a replicar is a completely restored car.

Another argument might be that it is better to run a true replicar, especialy one that is made in the true spirit of replicating the orginal, rather than risking the 'real thing'.

The work done by Chris Rea's team in creating the SharkNose was brilliant and this sort of thing should be encouraged.

blah blah
IanC

[TimD]

Tricky one.

I know that when I'm standing at the inside of Copse at the opening lap of Coys Silverstone, I'm not going "fake, fake, real, fake, real, real, real, bitza, fake!"

I'm going "oooh, 250F, Dino, 250F, 250F, Lotus, BRM, Vanwall, Connaught, 250F!"

And yet in the cold light of day, I'm aware that at least one of the Ferrari Dino 246s and a Maserati that race in international historic events, have not a grommet, not a washer, that ever originated in their alleged factories.

So what to do about the Lancia D50? Well, I for one would be happy to see it race. As long as no claims are made for it, like it was discovered "by chance" in a Bolivian junkyard, as has been said of more than one Bugatti on the scene.

And if the engine/transaxle are the real McCoy, then that's a point in their favour, too. After all, there's an unfortunate Connaught that in the last decade of historic racing has had so many major thumps there's got to be precious little original car there now.

Wasn't one of Enzo's reasons for the annual scrapping that he didn't want wealthy amateurs getting hold of cars that he felt were getting beyond the abilities of mere mortals? I think this really came to the fore after the Marquis de Portago's accident at the Mille Miglia. Interesting thought, given the status of many of the historic GP drivers today.

Nick Mason, Alain de Cadenet, Thomas Bscher, Burkhard von Schenk...

[Michael M]

Peter, couldn't you find an easier discussion item for us?? I now already know that within short this topic will get the famous flame for more than 25 replies!

Anyhow, the question of "originality" is as old as the historic car scene, and I'm not talking only about race cars, but road cars too. Tim mentioned already the multiplication of some Bugattis, and for sure the same has been done also in Ferrari circles. Split a car in 2 piles, chassis and engine on one side, and axles and bodywork on the other, search for a scrapped chassis number, and the missing items of each pile are reproduced, sorry, wanted to say "restored". Or take the 166 MM # 0034M where one previous owner sold the car to one party, and the papers to another. However, this is simply fraud, and nothing else. But can the actual owners of such cars be blamed for this? And who decides which of the replicates is the original, and which the fake?

Where is the border line between a restauration and a replica? Okay, the 156 Chris Rea sharknose is a fully replica, it even has no chassis number, and the best he could do was really to hand it over to the von Trips memorial trust for display at the Hemmersbach castle museum. It never will race, it never will get FIA papers, and it never will be sold. What about the silver arrows of Mercedes-Benz and Auto-Union? They are restored to such a high standard that nearly everything had to be reproduced. Although detailed restauration reports had been published in various magazines, I'm sure that the real extent of reproduction for ever will be a secret. These cars are not raced in competition, only in demonstrations, so no FIA papers are needed, but frankly spoken, in case MB or Audi apply for them, will they be issued?? What is the legal definition of a "car"? Is it the frame? Or only that small piece of metal where the number is punched in? Or maybe only the original papers showing the chassis number? On the other side, if you have a complete car, but have to build a new frame because the original one is broken, what do you have then?
I believe the problem with the D50 is that everybody k n o w s that there is no one in existance anymore, because otherwise - as Tim said already - we would have been told another "Bolivian yunkyard" story.

I think if somebody is ready to spent so much money to reproduce a "new" D50 around an original (?) engine, let him go his way. I agree with Yelwoci and Tim that in any case it will be a pleasure for us to have such a car, to look at it, listen to its sound, and even to see it racing. Pay for seeing replicas racing? Yes and no. If you have a starting grid of 15 original cars, completed by 2 replicas, would this increase the ticket fee? No, so one part of us is paying for 17 cars, and the rest only for 15, that's it.

However, the problem is much deeper. In order to get it raced, FIA docs are needed. If such paper is issued, it may release an avalanche, as other owners to whom the FIA document has been refused for similar reasons will start shouting, or even issue legal proceedings against FIA (we all know that the FIA passport can multiply the value of a car!). Next step will be that one claims the originality of his car because the steering wheel is original, and within short a car will be declared original because some period photos can be presented by the owner. Again, where is the border line?

I only can recommend to FIA not to certify this car, but on the other side it would be a wise solution for organizers to accept it as race entrant outside competition.

Concerning Enzo's famous scrapping actions, I'm not sure that it was burying memories (except for the shark nose after von Trips' death), and I also do not believe it was borderlining between the SF drivers and mere mortals. From the early beginning Ferrari always sold outdated Scuderia cars and even new - although lower spec - racing cars to privateers. In case of sports cars and prototypes these cars could still be winners in lower categories and minor races, but in F1 also the privateers asked for competitive cars, and outdated works cars had been no good deal. I think cannibalizing the cars for parts very often brought more return than selling them.

By the way, when talking about cheating and chassis numbers, anybody out there trying a bet how many of the FIA certified 1965 Porsche 911 are only chassis numbers??

[Corktree]

For as complete a log of the D.50 that I could put together, try looking here: http://www.racer.demon.nl/8w/d50.html

To the best of my knowlege, none of the D.50's survived except those in museum (two, sorta) and one the Lancia family managed to hang on to (it gets a tad messy at points...).

Don Capps

[This message has been edited by Corktree (edited 13 April 2000).]

Having forgotten the Lancia D50 birth and death myself, I just had to find out what happened. So, I wrote this piece, a "Readers' Digest" version, about a year ago at TNF. http://www.atlasf1.com/bb/showthread...ght=Lancia+D50

The brilliant Vittorio Jano, previously sacked by Alfa Romeo for incompetence, had designed the new Lancia D50 grand prix car. Gianni Lancia had planned the French Grand Prix in July 1954 to be the first race for the new car but since the design of this F1 car was started late during 1953, the D50 made its long awaited debut not until Barcelona at the last grand prix of the year in late October 1954. Lancia Corse brought two cars for Alberto Ascari and Luigi Villoresi, inseparable friends since the Fourties. Ascari, in the new Lancia, was right away quicker than any of the dominating Mercedes’, placing the D50 on pole, one second ahead of Fangio’s Mercedes-Benz. The cars showed their potential, but in the race, Ascari retired with an oil-soaked clutch and Villoresi parked his car with brake failure.

At the following Argentinean GP in January of 1955, all three Lancias of Ascari, Villoresi and Castellotti retired with ailments or crashed. Then followed three minor grands prix at Turin, Pau and Naples. Ascari won the first and last, with Castellotti placing second at Pau. The next major race was the Monaco GP, again with the three drivers as at Buenos Aires and Lancia Corse adding a fourth D50 for Louis Chiron. Castellotti finished his Lancia in second place, Villoresi and Chiron in fifth and sixth respectively with Ascari sliding through the chicane into the water of the Monaco harbor. Ascari survived but four days later at Monza, in his first drive with a race car since his Monaco crash, while testing his reactions in Castellotti’s Ferrari 750 Monza sports racing car, crashed to his death in the Curva del Vialone (now called Ascari Curve). The cause of the accident has never been fully explained. Consequently, Gianni Lancia announced that his team would be broken up. Castellotti started at the following Belgian GP in the Lancia D50, but as a private entry, placing the car on pole. During the race his gearbox let go while he held third place. This was the Lancia’s last race.

Thereafter the Lancia grand prix team, which had been built around Ascari, fell to pieces but also, or probably mainly, because of major financial problems. To sum it up, with the help of Fiat money, Lancia Corse was dissolved into Ferrari. In late September of 1955, the redesigned Lancia’s appeared under the Ferrari badge, named Lancia-Ferrari. With Mercedes and Lancia both having disappeared from the scene the following year, the Lancia-Ferrari was the car to beat in 1956. The Lancia-Ferraris were raced till the end of 1957 when they were beaten by the Maseratis and Vanwalls.

[Ray Bell]

Build 'em, demonstrate 'em, race 'em!

I'd pay to see and hear them... all I would ask is that they are recorded as replicas.