Lancia ECV Group S

JAG · 18 Jan 2004, 23:05 (Ref:842787)

http://freespace.virgin.net/shalco.com/lancia_gp_s.htm

Does anyone know anything about the Lancia ECV Group S car.

Info on the mid-engined Audi Quattro and all carbon Toyota MR2 Group S cars would also be much appreciated.

imull · 18 Jan 2004, 23:14 (Ref:842797)

says it all there really.

Gp S was banned before it hit the roads.

http://www.stormloader.com/groupb/s.html

JAG · 18 Jan 2004, 23:27 (Ref:842811)

Where is the car now?

imull · 19 Jan 2004, 11:29 (Ref:843148)

probably in a FIAT group museum somewhere

avsfan733 · 19 Jan 2004, 22:19 (Ref:843235)

Me want...drive....car....its like a rally version of the last generation of Le Mans cars, the Mercedes and Toyota and Porsche beautifal, its to bad they became dangerous AMerican rallying is a lot more open and with less spectators maybe they could be brought back here

Cryos · 20 Jan 2004, 22:17 (Ref:844683)

Where is the car now?

In the old lancia sheds in italy (seriously) where all the old war dogs are...

chunder · 22 Jan 2004, 15:46 (Ref:846959)

I can't imagine any of these cars exist any more. More likely to be in rustic old sheds at the factories somwhere.
Lancia was only ever a mock up anyway. Quattro aswell though I think it actually ran. MR2 was by far the most secret, only ever seen a couple of pictures.
People forget that Opel ran a Group S car in the Dakar and on teh British championship.
Also raced in very different form by John Welch in rallycross!

**BertMk2** · 22 Jan 2004, 16:57 (Ref:847102)

Quote:

Originally posted by chunder
People forget that Opel ran a Group S car in the Dakar and on teh British championship.
Also raced in very different form by John Welch in rallycross!

I know someone that's been in contact with John Welch recently about that car (Hi Allen) - it's still tucked away safe in a shed somewhere. No doubt Allen will post some details here if he reads this....

KA · 22 Jan 2004, 17:07 (Ref:847121)

Quote:

Originally posted by chunder
Quattro aswell though I think it actually ran. MR2 was by far the most secret, only ever seen a couple of pictures.

At the time I think Autosport or someone published a very blurred and grainy photo of something that appeared to be a mid-engined Sport Quattro testing in Germany. Photos of the MR2 have been published in at least one book.

JAG · 22 Jan 2004, 18:34 (Ref:847253)

There are some books available, that collate old articles on the cars such as the Quattro and RS200.

In one of the 4 quattro books there is a feature on the mid engined quattro.

Allen Mead · 22 Jan 2004, 20:28 (Ref:847384)

Did someone mention Mk2 Astra's???? Hi Bertmk2

I know a fair bit about the Opel Kadett Rallye 4x4. Originally Opel made 4 cars, but didn't have a butdget for an engine or gearbox. Eventually a manta 400 engine was used and turbocharged getting around 500bhp. Vauxhall supercharged it getting around 300 - 350bhp. That was built by SRE with no intercooler. John Welch bought the 2 Paris - Dakar cars, 1 of which he wrote off unfortunately. The 4x4 gear box was designed between him and Martin schancher from X-trac. Cosworth got involved with and engine build an IRRC from the horses mouth (being John Welch), the effort with cosworth on the zackspeed engine was around 500bhp. The final incarnation engine wise used a carlton 2.3ltr diesel block stroked back to 2.1, used BMW F1 inlet manifold and turbo. resultant power was 750bhp and 540lb/ft. Not too shabby for 17 years ago. More info can be found on www.astra-mk2.com

racer69 · 24 Jan 2004, 06:36 (Ref:849041)

There was a good article in Motorsport a few years ago about the demise of Group S.

The Lancia ECV wasn't a propper Group S car, more an experimental design, though it probably would have formed the basis of the Group S car.

The Audi did abit of running (i have the pic somewhere), as did a Skoda.

There is a pic of the Toyota in the article as well.

chunder · 24 Jan 2004, 14:29 (Ref:849320)

John sold the complete car to I think it was Tommy Kritoffersen was it for the transmission.
One of the big Swedes like Tommy or Jernberg bought the whole car for the transmission.
Don't think it is in a shed anywehere unless that one is the one John wrote off at Lydden where he hurt his back.
He actually built two, the newer one was sold to Sweden somewhere.
Used Manta 400 bits basically with BMW F1 tech on the turbo.
Paris Dakar cars were the ones with turbo's weren't they and the car Andrew Wood drove was supercharged and allegedly mid engined, ie the engine was behind the axle in the front, right up to the bulkhead

Barrie · 24 Jan 2004, 16:05 (Ref:849377)

John Welch had the Opel Kadett first didn't he, I'm sure he did keep that as spares for the newer Vauxhall Astra which he indeed sold to Kristoffersen for the xtrac system, because he couldn't wait for the one he had ordered. Someone also did that with Arild Martinsens BMW Xtrac, can you remmember who that was Chunder?

917Addicted · 24 Jan 2004, 16:24 (Ref:849388)

can someone post a pic of the group s audi? I'm a big fan of the quattros (sport quattro is very yummi)

chunder · 24 Jan 2004, 20:58 (Ref:849577)

Not sure who bought Arild's car. Was one of those cars that just seemed to disappear from view, despite it being a marvel of engineering!!

Barrie · 24 Jan 2004, 23:10 (Ref:849672)

Sure Olle Arnesson was up for buying it when his Quattro S1 was outlawed, he had a big car accident so that put payed to that. That BMW was some car though, it was just as competitive as the Group B cars, incredible power and handling, for the big car.

racer69 · 25 Jan 2004, 07:24 (Ref:849847)

More on the Opel's, they were used as example's in a presentation to FISA in a final attempt to get them to change their decision on banning Group S......They shouldn't have bothered, once Balestre had his mind made up about something........

**BertMk2** · 25 Jan 2004, 15:25 (Ref:850049)

Piccy of the Astra 4S:

**BertMk2** · 25 Jan 2004, 15:27 (Ref:850050)

Quote:

Originally posted by chunder
Don't think it is in a shed anywehere unless that one is the one John wrote off at Lydden where he hurt his back.
He actually built two, the newer one was sold to Sweden somewhere.

John Welch has still got one of the cars (complete - not the written off one). See the website Allen posted above somewhere - it's got more about the Astra 4S and more about the John Welch car.

chunder · 25 Jan 2004, 18:24 (Ref:850157)

Have often wondered what happened to all those cars. Would make a good book what do you reckon?
Great piccies of once great cars under sheets in garages

JAG · 2 Feb 2004, 00:33 (Ref:859601)

http://www.audisportcollection.com/A...n2003/326.html

Here are some pictures of the mid engined Quattro and what appears to be a very weird Audi Group S concept car.

Can anyone translate what is said about the cars?

**BertMk2** · 2 Feb 2004, 08:50 (Ref:859824)

The group S bit translates (badly) as:

"The group B will remain in the memories like most enthralling and envoûtante but also terrible and fatal page of the history of the rally. In 1984, TRUSTED it evoked already the probable disappearance of this diabolic category in which the race with the power did not have any more limit. A hypothetical group S was to then be born, and Audi had already prepared with this possibility. The result was this astonishing car, now exposed to Audi Museum. Of course, she never knew the asphalt of the tests since Audi engaged turbo Audi 200 groups A of it"

(translation by alta vistas babelfish service)

NSMG · 17 Feb 2004, 02:41 (Ref:876481)

Quote:

Originally posted by chunder
I can't imagine any of these cars exist any more. More likely to be in rustic old sheds at the factories somwhere.
Lancia was only ever a mock up anyway. Quattro aswell though I think it actually ran. MR2 was by far the most secret, only ever seen a couple of pictures.
People forget that Opel ran a Group S car in the Dakar and on teh British championship.
Also raced in very different form by John Welch in rallycross!

Well...
The Lancia ECV was a fully working prototype.Abarth made intensive testing with this car before dismantling it to build the ECV2, as this car uses the same chassis.
The remains of the ECV were bought by an ex-Abarth mechanic who is reportedly trying to rebuid it using an S4 chassis...that is all I know.
The misterious Audi Gr.S prototype can be seen at the Audi Museum at Ingolstadt.I tried to obtain information about this car , but I had always the door shut in my face..

What is irritating is that the car was fully restored and it actually works, but don't expect to see it moving on the next 20 years...

The Toyota MR-2 Gr.S was first shown to the public in the early nineties.2 cars were made.1 is in TTE in Germany and the other is in Japan.
The most misterious Gr.S car prototype is the Mazda Gr.S built by Mazda Euro Rally Team in Belgium.
This is all I know...

Best Regards.

avsfan733 · 18 Feb 2004, 05:28 (Ref:877956)

someone really really needs to do a book or website with all this info its really important to the history of the sport andd it is to bad its under wraps like this

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