Programmes

[coppice]

At Croft yesterday for BRSCC meeting . Earlier in the week I'd failed to find the entry on either BRSCC or circuit websites. 'No, no programmes now , love - it's Covid '. Odd that I've already bought programmes at Goodwood , Harewood (BARC like Croft ) and Donington this year, with no apparent ill effects . Hardly
surprising , given the evidence pointing to a tiny risk from surface infection.

In 2020 and early 2021 , caution was the watchword , as we were in unknown territory but now , really ?

Info now found on website , but can we just get a grip ?

[The Fat Clerk]

All clubs seem to do their own thing, VSCC @ Curborough a couple of weeks ago had a superb programme for their Sprint,
HSCC @ Silverstone this weekend aren't doing a programme although their Website is very good with all the Bulletins visible showing additions / deletions number changes etc.

[rbs]

Seems to be the way of the larger clubs today. Lesser organisations seem to be able to do programmes as FC said the Curbourough one was wxcellnt for VSCC as was the BOC Prescott one for the Hill climb championship.
Virtual programmes are a very poor substitute and a cheap way out for majority of clubs.

[Adam43]

I like programs.

I suspect the “it’s Covid” might not be the entire story. So why do some not do them?although the realising you can live without them might well have come from this.

Is it a “cheap way out”? What does this mean? Well that presumably means that selling the programs did not cover the cost of producing the programs. Otherwise they would do it. Which suggests that they aren’t that important to people. Previously they were a necessity, but now you can find out the information elsewhere.

As pointed out each club is making their own decision here.

Competitors like them. It’s a bit like when we moan about Autosport not covering club racing or printing the full results. We like to see our name in print.

So perhaps competitors should cover this expense and not be so cheap. I can see why clubs avoid that, there is so much moaning about fees and other costs of racing going up.

So, I like programs, but can understand why they are dying out.

[coppice]

I have contributed to a few programmes( for CSCC ) , but have bought hundreds over the years. Many, perhaps even most , are bloody terrible -

-they are in the same tired old format they have been since I bought my first in 1968

- they are often terribly written, typos a-plenty and/or very , very dull

-some have verbatim , and lengthy extracts from technical regs , but if you are interested , you know it already and if you're not , it's a cure for insomnia

- the key info is timetable and entries , and these are often scatter-gunned around the text

-often missing is an informed guide on whom to watch. That isn't always the same as drivers leading a class- it is about entertaining the captive audience as well as informing them .

- for newcomers, race meetings can be confusing , so some sparky narrative about where and how to watch helps, where overtaking is best seen and so on

Who gets it right? Goodwood is head and shoulders above the rest in every respect, including price of course. VSCC is often excellent and , away from roundy round stuff, Santa Pod programmes are a lovely blend of information and colour. But a typical BARC/ BRSCC programme ? 3 or 4 quid or more for this tired old tut ? Shoot me now ...

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by coppice

But a typical BARC/ BRSCC programme ? 3 or 4 quid or more for this tired old tut ? Shoot me now ...

So in truth you're probably glad there was no programme available at Croft then....?

[redshoes]

I was at a meeting recently where the commentator was bemoaning the lack of a proper programme and had actually downloaded the PDF and printed it off just to have something to work from. Prior to each race he would give out the grid and any changes to the entry, and every time he had to stop himself from saying "if you want to make a note of the changes in your programme.."

[coppice]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

So in truth you're probably glad there was no programme available at Croft then....?

No- because they still contain useful information. I just get frustrated that they could -and should - be so much better , especially as some promoters have shown how it can be done .

[The Fat Clerk]

Putting another hat on (I know big head), it takes a lot of time and trouble to construct a programme (I've only done a few) ok the bigger clubs have full time staff, the smaller ones not so.
A club I'm involved with, the CMMC are running a 2 day meeting @ Mallory this weekend and yes are producing a programme. Entries are still being taken as I write this, a definitive timetable has still to be agreed, the printers are obviously getting twitchy and so it goes on.

Interesting to read on the interweb the other week that some of 'the big' football clubs are talking of not producing programmes for next season.

[Mike Harte]

Dave, I would say that it all comes down to money, and if promoters and/or clubs can find a way to increase their income by not doing something, they will do so.

As to the "big" football clubs considering not producing programmes, this somewhat confirms what club supporters have been saying for quite some time; that the clubs don't really care about the people that come through the turnstiles.

The thing that I really don't understand is that it is so much easier, and I would have thought comparability cheaper, to produce programmes nowadays as they are mocked up on computers and then "fed" directly to the printing machines without the need for time consuming type setting, etc. It also means that they can be printed at almost the last moment, rather than days in advance back in the day.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The thing that I really don't understand is that it is so much easier, and I would have thought comparability cheaper, to produce programmes nowadays as they are mocked up on computers and then "fed" directly to the printing machines without the need for time consuming type setting, etc. It also means that they can be printed at almost the last moment, rather than days in advance back in the day.

Why not remove the printing machine, and 'feed' the programme direct to an online platform?

There are costs to print a programme, both financial and environmental, which can be removed whilst still giving the spectator a viable product - just in digital form.
This also has the advantage of being able to incorporate changes after the programme is released - updates can be pushed to the platform.

One such example - https://barc.blob.core.windows.net/croft/btcc-clhv4.pdf

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Dave, I would say that it all comes down to money, and if promoters and/or clubs can find a way to increase their income by not doing something, they will do so.

This supposes that overall it is a cost. That the revenue of doing so does not cover the cost (printing, time, etc…). Which I guess is correct. If it made money then by the same logic it wouldn’t be under threat.

I wonder how many are made and then purchased, given away or wasted at the end of the day? I wouldn’t be surprised given away and wasted is much higher than purchased.

And the clubs do want to reduce costs after all the racers are paying for this and there are many of them complaining about the costs of going racing.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Why not remove the printing machine, and 'feed' the programme direct to an online platform?

A lot of us, especially old farts like myself, don't have mobile pieces of equipment. So, are you suggesting that I should lug my PC along to a race with a very, very long mains lead? Assuming, of course, that there so happens to be a handy mains socket handy to where I choose to sit/stand.

I'm afraid that not everybody wants to live their lives structured by electronic gizmos, and I also far prefer to read stuff from a printed magazine or book rather than having to scroll endlessly through something less tactile that is online.

[Aysedasi]

I have a laptop, a tablet and a smartphone, but I would still rather have a printed programme.....

It's probably a very minor consideration (to the clubs, anyway) but there are people who collect programmes. I have the Le Mans programme for every year I've been 1986-2019, plus 2021 and a number from before my Le Mans trips started. I'd be very disappointed indeed if the ACO stopped producing a programme - even though I have many that I've never opened (or even unwrapped).

I have a collection of Le Mans Information Presse - Media Guides which I've managed to collect, many with the aid of a well known commentator who is a personal friend. I have all of them between 1986 and 2010 and was gutted when the guides went digital in 2011...... Sometimes having something physical is a lot better than something virtual....

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

A lot of us, especially old farts like myself, don't have mobile pieces of equipment. So, are you suggesting that I should lug my PC along to a race with a very, very long mains lead? Assuming, of course, that there so happens to be a handy mains socket handy to where I choose to sit/stand.

I'm afraid that not everybody wants to live their lives structured by electronic gizmos, and I also far prefer to read stuff from a printed magazine or book rather than having to scroll endlessly through something less tactile that is online.

So - I understand the desire to have a printed version of a programme. Unfortunately, I think that those who do wish to have a printed version will increasingly become in the minority.


OFF TOPIC - As an aside - having a mobile device will become almost essential in the next three years as the PSTN is switched off. In the event of a power outage, you should consider a mobile device for emergency situations.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

So - I understand the desire to have a printed version of a programme. Unfortunately, I think that those who do wish to have a printed version will increasingly become in the minority.


OFF TOPIC - As an aside - having a mobile device will become almost essential in the next three years as the PSTN is switched off. In the event of a power outage, you should consider a mobile device for emergency situations.

If you are referring to BT's warning that they were going to stop powering landlines, I believe that I read in the last couple of weeks that BT have done a u-turn on that decision, and have stated that, in view of the fact that many elderly and/or vulnerable people do not possess or can use a mobile, they will maintain to power the lines.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

If you are referring to BT's warning that they were going to stop powering landlines, I believe that I read in the last couple of weeks that BT have done a u-turn on that decision, and have stated that, in view of the fact that many elderly and/or vulnerable people do not possess or can use a mobile, they will maintain to power the lines.

Yes - I don't think it is a full u-turn though, just a review of the process.
It's currently on hold - but once they have addressed the issues, it's likely to proceed at pace to meet the 2025 deadline.

Back to the digitisation of programmes - I think it is only likely to increase further. By opting to not engage with an online version seems like deliberately excluding themselves from the output.

[coppice]

Update - British GP programme was 17 quid ,and was utter dross aimed at 11 year olds. Interestingly, after feeding back to Silverstone , their MD replied , agreeing it was terrible. What I didn't know is that the circuit has no involvement whatsoever in GP programme - all down to F1 itself . Which explains a lot..

Dragstalgia programme a model of clarity and information - 3 quid !

Oulton Park Gold Cup a fiver , but well produced and informative

Croft club meeting - 'we don't do them . Covid , it is online'. Which was true , if you could get a signal and didn't mind squninting at your phone in bright sun.

[rbs]

Originally Posted by coppice

Croft club meeting - 'we don't do them . Covid , it is online'. Which was true , if you could get a signal and didn't mind squninting at your phone in bright sun.

I had the same answer at the GT Cup meeting at Silverstone recently, every meeting at Prescott I have been to this year has had a programme

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by coppice

Update - British GP programme was 17 quid ,and was utter dross aimed at 11 year olds. Interestingly, after feeding back to Silverstone , their MD replied , agreeing it was terrible. What I didn't know is that the circuit has no involvement whatsoever in GP programme - all down to F1 itself . Which explains a lot..

Yeah, when we went on the Saturday my lad wanted to buy one - I couldn't believe how much they were....

[GCCheddaris]

A lot of clubs put their entry lists online a day or two before the meeting and MSVR usually have a digital programme on their website for each meeting presumably so you can print off your own programme, as you can of course with the entry lists. Clubs whose entry lists I have never found include the CSCC, HRDC, MGCC and VSCC. Not saying they don't display them somewhere but I haven't found them.

[rww]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

A lot of clubs put their entry lists online a day or two before the meeting and MSVR usually have a digital programme on their website for each meeting presumably so you can print off your own programme, as you can of course with the entry lists. Clubs whose entry lists I have never found include the CSCC, HRDC, MGCC and VSCC. Not saying they don't display them somewhere but I haven't found them.

For the CSCC, go to the clubs Home Page, and click on Calendar/Booking. All info for future race events is displayed including the Entry List, when published.

[GCCheddaris]

Originally Posted by rww

For the CSCC, go to the clubs Home Page, and click on Calendar/Booking. All info for future race events is displayed including the Entry List, when published.

Great stuff, thanks for that.

[JimW]

Rather to my surprise, I now realise how much I miss a printed programme. Yes, I have and use all available technology but that is for the most appropriate purposes. Add in that most clubs are producing "electronic" publications which are nothing of the sort. They are just a PDF copy of what they would otherwise have printed. As a consequence they are hard (impossible/impracticable?) to read online. If you are going to produce an online version, give the job to a skilled online person, not a printer.

[Adam43]

I get the pdfs printed professionally when I get home so I can have a copy. Club meets I do A5 and professional series I do A4, or 11x8.5 over here.

A bit like those fake tickets you can now get for evens that had tickets on your phone.