Is Bernies 'cash cow' on it's last legs? [MERGED]

[doug911]

So China are now re-considering their GP as it simply costs them too much once Bernie has taken his fat cut!

Could this be the start of him having to reduce his prices...I'm sure some of the other newer venues are thinking again as to whether they can go on loosing money whilst Bernie rakes it in!!

A revolt can only be good for the traditional GP venues.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72111

[FPV GTHO]

If China werent so quick to bend over and offer $50m a year it wouldnt be so bad. Bernie's not necessarily demanding so much money off them, theyre just quick to accept.

[zac510]

Worst case we just go back to 17 or 18 GPs I guess.

[duke_toaster]

I don't think the current situation regarding Bernie running the sport as his cash cow and the teams getting little of the money is sustainable. Most of the better sports leagues in the UK are co-operatives of the teams. FOTA should be looking at that model which could provide a quiet revolution.

[paddy]

I've just read in the Telegraph online that his wife's left him and that there is speculation of Britain's most expensive divorce. I'm afraid I don't know how to provide a link. He may need to find a bit of cash if this is true.

[doug911]

Originally Posted by paddy

I've just read in the Telegraph online that his wife's left him and that there is speculation of Britain's most expensive divorce. I'm afraid I don't know how to provide a link. He may need to find a bit of cash if this is true.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3458...ital-home.html

[Robert Morris]

Poor Bernie he now going to find out what its like to get riped off.

[Bononi]

I bet he'll get out of this pretty well.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by doug911

A revolt can only be good for the traditional GP venues.

Will that happen though? The amount China are prepared to pay is reducing, but it is likely the amount the European venues are prepared to pay is also reducing. China might still be prepared to pay more, it is the relative values that are important in where the GP will be. The value may get so low that the transportation costs become more significant and this tips the balance to a European GP (or hospitality packages, or something else).

[kipper]

I'd be surprised if the removal of a race at the Shanghai circuit would result in the growth of races at 'traditional' circuits. Firstly, it is possible that an alterantive Chinese race could be staged (perhaps on at night or on a street circuit). Secondly, it is possible that races in countries such as Russia and India could be added to the schedule. These could replace races such as the Chinese GP, so it could mean that there is a cessation in the growth of the number of races.

[BootsOntheSide]

The championship's success is probably secure regardless of who is bankrolling the races and who is running the show. If none of the new circuits have been profitable, maybe they won't keep coming on board - which might save the established European tracks. Still, China probably gets more from having a Grand Prix than Belgium or Britain; even if it's not brilliantly-attended there's still people coming in and spending money in the local economy.

[Oldtony]

Sorry Boots thats a bit of a Eurocentric view of Shanghai. Remember that the Shanghai Economy is probably the size of Berlin-Paris-Rome-London all rolled together.
I think they are cutting Bernie down to size and if FOTA thinks F1 is relevant to the manufacturers it will be pushing for a China race even more than for North America. Like it or not, that is where the centre of economic power is moving and Shanghai is the centre of that economy.
Don't know if Bernie's personal dramas are applicable, even if the holding company bears his wife's name.
I think all round the world national and provincial governments are having a close look at the cost benefit ratio of an F1 event. If that can be improved by cutting out the "middle man (Bernie/CVC)" so much the better.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by doug911

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3458...ital-home.html

This will be the ride of his life..

[Naruto]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20974.html

[Dutton]

I'll shed no tears over it if it happens. I cannot stand the track. I just think it is utterly pants to the nth degree. You see - the nth degree - I could not offer an actually existing degree: I had to work in the plane of the purely theoretical. That is how much I dislike the track.

I am perfectly happy to have a race in China. It can be on the exact same site for all I care, but just rip up the current track and try again. I won't be dellusion enough to suppose anyone but Tilke would design a new Chinese track, but I will allow myself to dream that he could do a much better job.

A good starting point would be to not design a track with a character of a language in mind.

Better, I think, to focus on trying to make a decent track.

[Dutton]

Nah. F1 is not on its last legs. Bernie's control of its commerical side will only end when he either dies or loses his mind.

It is possible that FOTA could force him to give a bit more ground, but I don't seem much beyond this.

The only other option I could see would be for FOTA to offer Bernie such a mind-bogglingly gargantuan quantity of money to sell it all to them that he could not turn it down. I am not sure such an amount could be found. He clearly lives for the game of business dealing, and he clearly loves F1 as the vehicle. It would take something extraordinary, I feel, to get him to sell up.

Every man has his price, for sure, but I am just not sure FOTA could find the money.

As far as a collapse in his race-fees goes? I doubt it. We'll just see a cycling around the various governments that are willing to hand over huge chunks of money. Run with them for a few years, then they give it up, so go to some others, which they give up a few years later, so go to some more, and so on.

Bernie will just keep upping the prices, and somebody somewhere will pay it.

[f1manoz]

Not sad in the slightest. Sure, have a race in China if the grandstands are full and then there is a reason why.

But the promoters have admitted they haven't made money, and all you have to do is look at the empty grandstands to see why.

So, how about putting the race back in Europe where the grandstands will be packed eh?

[johntt]

Can anyone see FOTA taking over the commerical side of F1 a la CART (no pun intended) when Bernie finally croaks/gives up power?

[duke_toaster]

I'd like to see that happening, I doubt it will though. The best run sports leagues are all co-operatives of the teams.

[Smokey 6 litre]

Wouldn't miss the chinese GP at all, another boring Tilke circuit which really doesn't add much to an f1 season (with the exception of being the only circuit in the world with its only gravel trap on the pitlane entrance)

As for Bernie...he'll survive, the only way to stop him is sunlight, holywater, silver or a steak through the heart.

[Leighton Irwin]

What a waste of good meat. I think I would use a stake. I wouldn't even waste garlic on him.

[safc_fan89]

It wouldn't be much of a loss...but still, you do have to ask why China were clearly so desperate to hold the race that they accepted to pay such a ridiculous price for the privelege. They only have themselves to blame really, and no-one seems to have embraced it particularly. I wouldn't say the facilities look particularly top-notch either, Singapore, although it doesn't have the horrible grandstand over the start-finish straight, is generally a lot more glamorous. Even if it was hosted in the afternoon...

[chillibowl]

considering that the track and its management have been involved in a massive fraud scandal for the past several years, here, its not surprising that poor management has led to the event not making money or has not given the locals there any reason to support it. with this scandal hanging over, i dont think its fair to say that the potential loss of the the Shanghai GP is due to a lack of support on part of the Chinese’s fans. sadly, for their part they are the ones who have paid the ridiculous amounts to have the race there making them pretty big fans imo.

so is the cash cow on it last legs? it may be in Shanghai, but as BE claims, there are many such cities in China and equally as many government officials who would love to steal millions from there own to provide him the the sanction fees...and if it doesnt work in China, there is a whole wide world out there complete with their own equally corrupt bureaucrats....

cynical I know, however, I am happy that for the time being, Canadian organizers have chosen to opt out of BE’s agenda.

[old man]

Originally Posted by Dutton

The only other option I could see would be for FOTA to offer Bernie such a mind-bogglingly gargantuan quantity of money to sell it all to them that he could not turn it down. I am not sure such an amount could be found. He clearly lives for the game of business dealing, and he clearly loves F1 as the vehicle. It would take something extraordinary, I feel, to get him to sell up.

Every man has his price, for sure, but I am just not sure FOTA could find the money.

Bernie will just keep upping the prices, and somebody somewhere will pay it.

So far as I know Bernie does not actuallu own it anymore, he is the CEO but ownership is in the hands of a bank or two and you know what good businessmen they are so we can trust them to continue it all!

[Dutton]

I was under the impression that he bought the controlling interest back a wee while back for considerably less than he sold it for, thus making a total killing.