Mk2 Cortinas

[Gary Critcher]

lads, why is it, with the plethora (right word??) of mk1 Cortinas (Lotus, GT, whatever) currently racing, have I never seen a MARK 2 Cortina in historic racing??

[Gary Critcher]

......I've half a mind to get meeself one and put it out on the track... ..

[Peter Mallett]

David Austin raced a Mk 2 Lotus Cortina in the CSCC Post Historics around 8 years ago. I believe he retired but his car is around somewhere.

I'll pm Ken Clarkes phone number. He might be able to help.

[Anuauto]

Heavier and more brick-shaped (and in rallying more likely to bend in the middle). Much the same applied to the Escort 1 and 2 of course...
One contributory reason also must be the very limited (one and a bit seasons) "works" use of Mk2 Cortinas before the Escort took over.

[COLIN STUBBS]

peter st barbe has been racing a red and gold mk2 all year on post historics!!!alastair southall raced a white mk2 in phtc in the early 90s and sold it on to dave austin.

[Al Weyman]

Peter's car is up for sale on the CTCRC site here http://www.csccgb.co.uk/pages/sales/salesframeset.asp

I always thought the Mk2 Escort was equally or more competitive than the Mk1. Is the shell not lighter on the Mk2? Another advantage of the Mk2 Cortina I would have thought was that you could use the later 1600cc crossflow engine whereas the Mk 1 like Zef's is stuck with the 1500cc pre-crossflow. unless of course you are talking twin-cams then there would be no advantage and definitely a weight disadvantage.

[John Turner]

Apart from the reasons already stated, I think also that the Mk1 has wider classic car appeal. The Mk 2 has its followers (particularly the 1600E) but I don't think it (yet) captures the imagination like the earlier car; nor did it have such an illustrious competition career. Sounds like some of you guys might want to change that perception with action!

[Anuauto]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I always thought the Mk2 Escort was equally or more competitive than the Mk1. Is the shell not lighter on the Mk2?

It was made so with better engine, suspension etc. The weight increase was not that significant - almost certainly down to the extra glass area being heavier than tin. With the exception of the "droop snoot" Mk2 RS2000, the Cd was definitely worse - I think there are figures in the Jeremy Walton book.

[Al Weyman]

Yes the Mk 1 definitely looks more slippery especially with the bubble arches compared to the slabs sides on the Mk 2's works arches.

[Gary Critcher]

Peter, thanks indeed for the PM

[zefarelly]

MK1 Cortina is lighter, and has a narrower track

theres not a huge amount in it though.

the lotus variants where homologated as mk2's with all thre goodies and make good period rally cars, I don't think the MK2 GT was ever homologated for racing per se but I recon I could get one competitive for say groovy baby, something I have considered, and still am !

a MK2 LC is potentially very competitive, although to FiA spec it would get let for deads by the later homologation specials ( escort BMW Alfa etc) much like the MK1 GT (1963) does by the MK1 Lotus ( 1966 going on 1969 !)

[James Murray]

Some of the reason might be down to eligibility as its post 65 which restricts the series you can run one in. The pre 65 class is more popular isn't it because there's the FIA series and various UK Top Hat/HSCC stuff, therefore people would rather go for a mk1.

Wasn't there a works Mk2 with FVA and f2 running gear which was raced by Graham Hill?

[james s]

There were two works mk11 cortinas,one ended up as the Stanley mann car and is now used with a cosworth Yb (i think).The other CTC 14E is nearing the end of restoration still with its original FVA 1600cc (236bhp).

[Gary Critcher]

certainly Team Lotus ran two works cars for Graham Hill & Jackie Oliver in 68

[Anuauto]

The 3 Team Lotus cars for 67 (not 68) were CTC12E,13E,14E. Alan Mann in 68 with CTC24E whilst waiting for Escort Twincam.

[zefarelly]

there are a few real and not so real ones about, the ran as twinks with fuel injection, possibly BDA's ? or straight to FVA F2 engines ( same/similar block)

there are several series for post 66, and an FiA series, I think one of the reasons no one runs a MK2 for example is it'll get whipped by a well prepared escort, and no one can afford to run it as an FVA !

[jonners]

S'funny that my first ever thread on this forum relates to Mk 2 Cortinas having been hillclimbing a Mk 2 Lotus for the last 10 years. By necessity have become a bit obsessed with them...

Have never heard of CTC 13E as a race car

Team Lotus raced CTC 14E and 24E - these were raced by some very famous names - Jackie Ickx being another to add to the list

These cars were then sold by Team Lotus on the basis that they were obsolete given the imminent homologation of the Escort

When homologation of the Escort was delayed Ford (I think) purchased CTC 24E from whoever it was who bought it from Team Lotus and paid Alan Mann to race it in the first half of the 68 season pending the Escort's arrival. It goes without saying that the Escort set the world alight and the Alan Mann Twin Cams are very famous but the 68 title won by Frank Gardner was won in a Cortina and an Escort

When the Escort arrived Alan Mann sold CTC 24E to a chap in the South West who entered a few local sprints before selling it on.

I know that chap reasonably well and amazingly he repurchased the car several years ago which enabled me to have a very good crawl over it. The Group 5 modifications are amazing and some of them I doubt were legal but you'd only know if you are very familiar with the bodyshells.

The FVA was long gone and wasn't with the car when he bought it from Alan Mann - infact he says that his understanding was always that title to all FVA's was retained by Ford at all times - which explains why so few are around. You can now buy new ones at vast expense.

My mate has now sold CTC 24E....to Alan Mann...

The Mk 2 is not as charismatic as the Mk1 but is supposed to be more forgiving to drive. That's what they say. I have never driven a Mk 1 Lotus but in all honesty I think here 'forgiving' means slower.

You can do an amazing amout to them though and you never feel that you're jeopardiizing value as they're not worth that much. Groovy Baby on 45's might be worth a look.

I'll go back to sleep now

[zefarelly]

I'm tempted by groovy baby, looking at lap times I reckon you'd be in the thick of it with a good 1600 GT

I think the MK1 LC was killed as a race car by the Escort in the same way the MK1 GT was superceded by the LC

[COLIN STUBBS]

hey jonners its a worthy obsession! remember racing against alastair southall in his mk2 at snett about 15 years ago and accidentally gave him a tap at the esses. i was mortified that id dinged his car but alastair is a true gent and didnt thump me!
iv just got a vanguards alan mann mk2 on the shelf. not a real good replica but looks good alongside the mk1 and escort.

[Dan Rear]

I remember Martin Sledmore racing a pristine ex Alan Mann, I think, Mk2 in Northern Spec Saloons in the late 70s. Not all that fast, and certainly well behind the Skoda etc clones, but a real looker !!

[COLIN STUBBS]

nice pic of martins car on the racing 70s website

[Carlos Guerra]

Alongside CTC 24E, Alan Mann also had UVX 565E for Frank Gardner to drive during the first part of the 1968 season, pending the Escort Twin Cam homologation.
UVX 565E was sold to dutch driver Frans Lubin in mid-1968.

[John Turner]

Good thread, guys.

Welcome to Jonners and Carlos.

[Anuauto]

I feel the need for a "The Works Cortinas" book - although the existing "Works Minis" and "Works Escorts" books don't adequately cover the degree of re-shelling that occurred.
Not sure whether any of the race cars were re-shelled? CTC24E is associted with Alan Mann colours but Graham Robson's book "Ford in Saloon Car Racing" has, I think, a picture of a CTC24E in Team Lotus colours driven by Paul Hawkins at Silverstone in 67. CTC12,13 and 14E may have been allocated as "identities" to Team Lotus for 67 but may not all have been used?

The works rally cars immdiately get "muddy" with the blue/gold UVW924E, that was on the 67 Acropolis Rally and won the 67 Gulf London Rally with Ove Anderson, becoming a pristine white apparently new car for Bengt Soderstrom on the (cancelled at the last minute because of the foot and mouth outbreak) 67 RAC Rally.

[Carlos Guerra]

Originally Posted by Gary Critcher

certainly Team Lotus ran two works cars for Graham Hill & Jackie Oliver in 68

Gary, you probably want to mean 1967, since there were no Team Lotus entries in the 1968 BSCC.
In 1967, Jack Oliver drove the DR Ford Mustang in the BSCC.
CTC 14E and CTC 24E were 1967 Team Lotus entries, and were driven by Graham Hill, Jacky Ickx, Paul Hawkins and John Miles, on different occasions.
At the British GP meeting, Lucien Bianchi drove UVX 565E. All three cars used FVA engines on most, or probably all the races.
I too have no record of CTC 13E beeing a racing car.
On the other hand, CTC 17E was a road car and the subject of a Motor's road test in their July 15, 1967 issue.