|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
1 Apr 2007, 16:08 (Ref:1881151) | #1 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 494
|
Did we just see the end of ....(spoiler Alert)
Everything about St. Pete said the Audi should lose. 3rd on the grid, long long wheel base, taller front tires, longer refueling. The tight narrow
St Pete circuit was almost Anti-Audi. yet the monster torque clearly showed how potent the car is. The LMP2 cars can empty the fuel tank, block up the radiators, go to full on Qualifying mode, and they can match the R10. But when you fill up the tanks and open the cooling, even in a tight track, the GRUNT of the diesel simply overwhelms the supposed advantages of the P2s. If I were Aston, or Ferrari, I'd be looking at finding some technical partner like Cummings or Catepillar to get a V-12 Diesel stuffed into a GT1 package. dave henrie |
||
|
1 Apr 2007, 17:16 (Ref:1881193) | #2 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,936
|
tbh its not the end of whatever it is whether it be petrol engines or whatever.
the pro diesel rules mean the diesel R10's have a LOT more power and torque than their rivals bar the diesel peugeot 908 HDI FAP, besides the LMP2 cars design means that they are slower, they have not got as good a power to weight ratio, despite the lower weight they dont have enough power to work it to their advantage or torque. not just that, the LMP2 cars run on smaller narrower tyres and with smaller brakes, that works against them as well, the LMP2 cars run in a different class to the audi's with different regs, the creation in LMP1 though is with a team on a steep learning curve, and also with unproven and unready tyre package. wait and see, its not the end, the audi's will beat the LMP2 cars because of the way the regulations are set out, once porsche or honda/acura decide to go LMP1 they will be even and beating the audi's, but until then......... |
||
|
2 Apr 2007, 05:59 (Ref:1881695) | #3 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,555
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
2 Apr 2007, 14:03 (Ref:1881987) | #4 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,936
|
exactly, ala rollcentre pescarolo and the charouz lola judd , they look to be the best privateer LMP1 cars so far, and yet we still have not seen what the lola audi of swiss spirit can do or the new creation CA07H and arena zytek 07S.
|
||
|
2 Apr 2007, 15:25 (Ref:1882037) | #5 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,868
|
Quote:
|
||
|
2 Apr 2007, 17:43 (Ref:1882136) | #6 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,936
|
nope diesel is not allowed in LMP2, GT1 and GT2, and good bloody riddance i dont want to see ANY ferrari, porsche or aston martin or corvette with a diesel engine in.
it would literally be sacrilege for say a DB9 aston to have a diesel engine in it, imagine the response from buyers and critics, aston would dive into debt quicker than you can say prodrive. |
||
|
2 Apr 2007, 17:49 (Ref:1882144) | #7 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,793
|
If it's got the performance, why would you care what fuel goes into it? That's like saying you don't want something to run on ethanol just because it isn't gas. Talk about stick in the mud.
We won't see the diesels in GT cars (in the immediate future) so don't you worry. But why are people so afraid of well-performing diesels? |
||
|
2 Apr 2007, 17:58 (Ref:1882150) | #8 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,936
|
Quote:
they sound awful, dull, quiet and boring they ALL sound the same, even the BMW 335D sounds the same as a skoda fabia VRS. they are not nice to drive, a petrol car is easier and a LOT more enjoyable to drive and for a sportscar has the noise which is a big factor in a car for me. |
|||
|
2 Apr 2007, 18:31 (Ref:1882161) | #9 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
|
Quote:
In the LMS the best privater P2's have always been slower than the best privateer P1's, a straight fight, without any factory cars or diesel engines confusing matters. I'm quite sure Zytek or Creation would have also been ahead of the best P2's at St Pete's, all being equal, i.e. drivers/tyres. Last edited by JAG; 2 Apr 2007 at 18:34. |
||
|
2 Apr 2007, 19:31 (Ref:1882196) | #10 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 626
|
You can always make fake exhaust sound with speakers. Plus, a ricer Honda Civic with 105 hp and a fart can exhaust sure makes a lot of sound (as much as any Ferrari), but it is still slow.
|
|
|
2 Apr 2007, 21:34 (Ref:1882306) | #11 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,793
|
Fair play, DJ. I don't think the sonics are fixed, though...not from listening to the 908. So that's a strawman. The Audi is quiet because they wanted it to be.
The powerband argument is true. I think that making racing diesels can only help alleviate that and increase the fun factor, though. I'm guessing the R10 or 908 aren't boring to drive. |
||
|
3 Apr 2007, 04:39 (Ref:1882414) | #12 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,735
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
3 Apr 2007, 04:42 (Ref:1882416) | #13 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 626
|
The R10 is also quiet because the turbocharger uses the sound energy while others just throw it away. This makes for a more powerful and fuel efficient racecar.
|
|
|
3 Apr 2007, 06:03 (Ref:1882440) | #14 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,354
|
I would think it is not beyond the realm that Audi will launch a diesel version of the road going R8 in the future and maybe then they will take it GT racing.
Also I would expect the road versions of the Audi diesel to be a lot more advanced than previous diesel road cars - I believe the Q7 is the first car to get it but I havent seen any reports on it yet. |
||
|
4 Apr 2007, 04:14 (Ref:1883050) | #15 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,351
|
Quote:
Did you help Algore produce that hokey "greenie" movie, that the gullible and naive are so in love with?? |
|||
|
4 Apr 2007, 08:36 (Ref:1883190) | #16 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 626
|
More powerful and more fuel efficient are very important in endurance racing. The R10 TDI accomplishes both. Go read the Dailysportscar article, the interiew with the R10 TDI engine main guy. You do know that the turbo also recaptures engine heat and turns it into mechanical energy to pump more air into the engine. The reason why the R8 was more fuel efficient (FSI as well of course) What a a silly greanie concept to make more power for free.
Or would you rather makes tons of noise with little go, like those fart cans on riced out Civics. Making noise is easy, take off the exhaust pipe. |
|
|
4 Apr 2007, 09:17 (Ref:1883207) | #17 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 305
|
Quote:
In future, they will have a new car for it. |
|||
|
4 Apr 2007, 15:29 (Ref:1883434) | #18 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,351
|
Quote:
I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying I did not see them. I especially want to see where putting a blower on an engne improves gas mileage, again I am not saying you are wrong but I want to see the quote. Bob |
|||
|
4 Apr 2007, 18:45 (Ref:1883543) | #19 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 626
|
Turbo and blower is not the same thing. Supercharger takes energy from the engine to spin. The turbo takes exhaust gasses (+sound) and spins the turbo. This is basically free energy as other cars throw it away. Kinda like a mini hybrid, but simpler and more performance oriented. (March 3rd, click Interviews and go to Ulrich Baretzky Interview)
“Noise is also a form of energy and we wanted to avoid wasting it. We already made progress in that area with the R8 with the high efficiency turbocharger system that we used on that car. The R10 is a quiet car because it also has a high efficiency turbocharger system that absorbs most of the energy coming out of the exhaust. |
|
|
4 Apr 2007, 19:46 (Ref:1883583) | #20 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,351
|
Quote:
The exhaust pipe blows on the supercharger's turbine blades and around and around they go. Maybe the pit crew shouts at the car to make it go faster past the pits. Noise is a form of energy, blah, blah, blah--that is the biggest crock of dung I have ever heard.(Unless they are into breaking wine glasses.) They are making an excuse for the quite engine by saying noisei s engergy; it is, but that has squat to do with the car. Gee, maybe they should hook up a microphone to the drivers face and have him shout into the fuel system. I know exactly how a blower works whether mechanical or exhaust driven; son, I have literally forgotten more about this than you know as I studied it in school. Get a book on automotive power systems and start reading, your ignorance is blatant. Bob |
|||
|
4 Apr 2007, 20:12 (Ref:1883611) | #21 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,276
|
Steady on bob !
|
||
|
4 Apr 2007, 20:41 (Ref:1883641) | #22 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 626
|
Wait, you are telling me that the turbocharger is not more efficient FI system than a supercharger? If that was true, Audi would have used a superchager on the R8. And if they could achieve the same power/efficiency with a loud race car, they would.
Efficiency This is the turbo's biggest advantage. The turbocharger is generally more economical to operate as it as it is driven primarily by potential energy in the exhaust gasses that would otherwise be lost out the exhaust, whereas a supercharger draws power from the crank, which can be used to turn the wheels. The turbocharger's impeller is also powered only under boost conditions, so there is less parasitic drag while the impeller is not spinning. The turbocharger, however, is not free of inefficiency as it does create additional exhaust backpressure and exhaust flow interruption. From http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=19 Of course they are making stuff up as they want to sell less superchargers. While the sound energy is probably a fairly small part, it probably plays some role. Quiet in a luxury car is also a very positive trait. Last edited by chewymonster; 4 Apr 2007 at 20:48. |
|
|
4 Apr 2007, 21:59 (Ref:1883694) | #23 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,418
|
Quote:
How can you tell if your race exhaust is loud enough? When you crank over the motor it will set off at least 5 car alarms |
|||
__________________
"When the fear of death out weighs the thrill of speed, brake." LG |
4 Apr 2007, 22:22 (Ref:1883708) | #24 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,276
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
5 Apr 2007, 00:23 (Ref:1883746) | #25 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,636
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Best Behaviour Alert | Liz | Formula One | 16 | 17 May 2002 20:31 |
Troll alert! | Lee | NASCAR & Stock Car Racing | 8 | 17 Jan 2002 12:42 |
Nostalgia alert | redshoes | Touring Car Racing | 3 | 24 Jan 2001 19:17 |