Rockingham in doubt...

[Dan Friel]

Apparently so...

Not enough money to pay for the event, CART demand certain payments to be made a certain times...

Surely someone will rescue it though??

[massifheed]

Where is this info from? Rockingham themselves?
I assure you, Rockingham WILL go ahead. Did anyone read the article in Autosport? They have formed organising body to promote oval racing in the UK. They are commited to promoting it, they will pay whatever Cart want's I assure you that.

They have stepped in to save the Ascar series by pouring money into it. They will do whatever it takes to host a round of the Cart championship. It's just rumours, that's all. People are ****ed off about the ticket prices (and so they should be) so these kind of rumours start doing the rounds.

[Dan Friel]

I really hope that the race goes ahead - just what everyone needs. But this info comes from a sound source, and not from one of the thousands who will stump up lots of cash to get in, he will have a free ticket… Advance sales have been poor, hence it's no rocket science that the predicted cash is not there - CART's payment dates do not alter.

It's no wonder that Rockingham would support ASCAR, it's the only other series in the world that would use the full oval!! Let's hope they get the cash sorted out.

Another friend is paying to get in, and grandstand tickets - he's now worked out that it would have actually been cheaper to go to the race at Chicago last weekend than go to Rockingham (that includes flights)!!!

[massifheed]

I agree that the ticket sales have been poor, I heard that they have only sold about 1/4 of all the tickets. That's pretty terrible for it's first year, but what did they really expect when they charge British GP prices?

That said, even if they sell no more tickets they will still pay CART whatever it wants because Rockingham has so much at stake.

I guess they will take the hit this year and pay CART, then next year they will drop the prices, or at least I hope they do, otherwise Ascar could be the only thing that uses the oval. I think that £50-60 is fair for a three day ticket to the race, might even win over some of the suckers from the British GP.

[Liz]

From the day those tickets went on sale, everyone and his Auntie Mame have been telling them the ticket prices are three times the average Champ Car price and a lot of us who were planning to go have cancelled our plans forthwith. The BIG difficulty with oval racing in September is that these cars do not run in the rain, and if you're flying in for the weekend, it's highly possible you will spend Grand Prix money and see nothing.

Apparently the people at Rockingham prefer to believe that we will blink before they do. Perhaps after this season they will get the message, and I sincerely hope they do, because I want this race to succeed. If nothing else it will prove to the hordes like floid2000 that Champ Cars is in fact an international series and there is a reason to keep on the push to put races outside the USA.

The Germans have put their prices at a level where normal people can afford them, and it will be instructive to see how the two venues compare in ticket sales. And what happens if it rains.

[bella]

well, i've just spent my rockingham ticket money on a new toy, so unless they do a ticket deal last minute i might not make it.

following on fron liz' last point, if it rains at rockingham, will people start wanting their money back? is this why the race is on saturday and not sunday, to allow for rain?

for £70, you can get a general admission ticket at monza for 3 days.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by bella


following on fron liz' last point, if it rains at rockingham, will people start wanting their money back? is this why the race is on saturday and not sunday, to allow for rain?

Precisely,same thing happened in 1978 when USAC visited England last.Races were on Saturday,rained most of the day,I saw one lap of practice,we were told to go home at about 3pm and come back to-morrow.. After waiting 2 hours for a bus,I did not bother to return. Rockingham presents even more logisic problems;does one book a extra night at a hotel in case of rain? Looks like it could cost me £200 to go.

[Liz]

And if you have a restricted fare airline ticket (no changes allowed) you have to go home Sunday night even if they decide to race on Monday - and if they race on Monday you don't get your money back.

This could turn out even worse than Silverstone 2000 and Champ Cars does NOT need this kind of publicity.

A week before the race they'd better have a fire sale and see if they can't pack the place with people paying 25 GBP to get in; better a nimble sixpence than a slow shilling. When the race starts let everyone else in free. What can you lose?

[bella]

guess i'm really lucky. i just jump in the car, and travel the 45 minutes to get there.....

[f1manoz]

Originally posted by bella
well, i've just spent my rockingham ticket money on a new toy, so unless they do a ticket deal last minute i might not make it.

following on fron liz' last point, if it rains at rockingham, will people start wanting their money back? is this why the race is on saturday and not sunday, to allow for rain?

for £70, you can get a general admission ticket at monza for 3 days.

About the rain, is there a road course incorporated at Rockingham?

If it did rain during the week/weekend, maybe they could just use that as a stopgap? Although people would prefer an oval, considering many wouldn't have seen ChampCars before, I'm sure it would be the same for most.

It's a pity we have no ovals here in Oz (except for Calder Park, but that place is a dump!) If we did have a proper oval here, I'd prefer them to race on that here (taking nothing away from Surfers of course)

[Liz]

That's how I feel about Toronto! Just get on the streetcar and I'm there. And we can go to Montreal on the overnight train. But neither are ovals so if it rains we just get wet.

As to an Oval in Oz ... "If you build it .... "

[R]

Maybe I'm completely out of my mind here, but has anyone ever considered building an oval with a removable roof? That could be used in case of rain, pulled aside in case of sunshine, so the race could be ran at the scheduled time no matter what the weather was like. It is definitely technically possible to do so, and that would certainly make the situation a lot easier for those who can not just jump in the car to get there...

[Rob29]

It would have to be a bloody big roof to cover Rockingham!Technically possible maybe,financialy I don't think so.Seriously,Rockingham have done a great job building what they have.There used to be a saying 'Brands was'nt built in a day'-still not built after 50 years.
Sadly I dont think big oval racing has a future in Britain,or Germany for that matter,due to the weather problem.Unless cars can be developed that can race safely in the rain.

[Liz]

IS it technically possible? How would you reinforce the roof?

[R]

Well, I definitely know there are soccer stadiums that have it, and some tennis courts too, I believe. Still, of course a superspeedway is a much larger construction, but I would think it would be technically possible to build a removable roof at such an arena too (someone with technical knowledge, help!! EERO?). I'm not sure how expensive it would be if you compare it to the cost of building the superspeedway in the first place, of course it would raise the expenses, but I wouldn't think by much comparatively speaking (and if you compare it with the loss of goodwill, bad publicity etc. that follows with several cancelled and/or postponed races, I think the extra cost of building a removable roof would pay off in the long run). Just a thought.

[macdaddy]

Wish they had one at Michigan to protect from the sun!

[Lola]

Your right ticket prices are bad. Back in 1993 i went to new Hampshire to see cart ( and Nigel win ) and it was only $30 for a good grandstand seat.
Im waiting for a free ticket for Rockingham!















Still waiting





Oh well!!!!

[EERO]

As I have been requested to offer my professional expertise as an Architect to consider the question of whether a roof over an Oval Track would be feasible. May I start off by saying that my specialty is the design of Historicly accurate Georgian Revival houses with an emphasis upon millwork details and interior mouldings, so I feel I am emminently qualified to discuss long-span structures over Sporting Facilities.

A race track, even a small oval is significantly larger than the largest domed stadia, though the Bristol Bowl, in Bristol, Tennessee used by NASCAR seems to be close to the scale of a Football Stadium.

Bear in mind that the concept of a covered Stadium is quite ancient, even the Coloseum in Rome had retractable "sails" suspended from masts and booms linked by cables across the the stadium in order to sheild the audience from the weather.

A contemporary retractable roof similar to that in the SkyDome in Toronto, would probably be too expensive because its complexity and weight would be enourmous if it were to span an Oval track.

I think the solution to this problem might lie in tensile, or tent. structures. Usually, these are a polyurethane membrane suspended from masts and steel cables. Given the length of the necesary spans, a simplification of the problem might be to cover only the stands and the racing surface and to allow the infield to be unprotected from the elements. This would require two parallel rows of structure flanking the track for its circumfrence, but it would preclude having to span the great distance of the infield. Think of it almost like the rows of hallide lights flanking freeways and imagine a tent suspended between them.

I believe three problems would be paramount in any attempt to span an oval with a roof. First: NOISE!!! The acoustical reverberations would be deafening. Ever bin t'a Monster Truck Rally? (Me neither, but I hear they're loud ) I would imagine twenty-five Indycars under a roof would permanently damage a lot of people's hearing.

The second issue is air quality, the amount of air needed to flush toxic fumes from an enclosed space would make the opening of any duct seem like a hurricane, (and would also add to the noise level).

My idea of spaning only over the racing surface and stands might mitigate these first two problems, but it would create a third: It would be extremely difficult to judge the appropriate distance to extend the edge of the roof beyond the edge of the racing surface in order to guarantee that no wind swept rain reached the track.


I think the problem could be solved, but the question is whether anyone has enough money to throw at it.

I hope this helps and triggers more thoughts.

I have to add that I don't make it over to this forum often but it sure is civilized over here.

Cheers.

-E.

[R]

Thanks a lot for your help, EERO! I must admit I hadn't even thought of the problems with noise or air quality until you brought it up. That means a complete retractable roof is out of the question. And as you say, with your "tent" solution, the problem will be how far should you extend it in order to be sure the entire track will be covered (with the turbulent winds these cars generate in themselves, that might be a big problem too, in addition to the elements coming through the "hole"). I would think it would have to be extended quite far from the track surface, but even that may not be enough if there's a storm going on (that will come blowing through the hole and inside the tent structure, and probably lead to rain pouring over the entire arena anyway, I would think). Again, thanks for your answer EERO, it was most informative, gave a lot of answers and raised even more questions. This is as far as my knowledge takes me on this subject. It's one for the experts to solve, if it's at all anything worth thinking about!

[Stephen Green]

I think a very valid point was made earlier in this discussion. Oval racing in the UK is going to struggle for many years to come, largely because with only one oval track in the country, race organisers are going to have trouble in getting series that use ovals together in any numbers. The thought of running the Cart race on the raod circuit was an excellent thought, but I wonder if the teams would ship the relevent aero packages over with the cars? The dynamics of running a car on an oval are vastly different from those of a road course. You have to say too that September was not the choicest of months to choose if you want dry weather!

Having said that, of the past 6 British Grand Pix's, we have had rain on at least one day every year and that is held in July (apart from last years April fiasco).

In my humble view, if we are to bring Cart to the UK or Europe, then we should go for road courses to avoid the problems the unpredictable weather causes.

Stephen.

[floid2000]

The Domes of the NFL are probably big enough for a 1/4 mile oval . It would be expensive ,but I believe, possible to dome a track. Cool Idea

[Liz]

Would the roof be taken down when the track was not in use? Otherwise I foresee the difficulties that they had in Hartford CT when the rain and snow built up on the tent and brought it down (fortunately with no one inside). In fact, could this happen while people WERE inside?

The question of whether there are enough oval series to keep the track in business is also interesting. Do you think, Stephen, that if there is a facility for them - and IF they charge reasonable sanctioning fees in order to keep the place in use - that other series will come? I've seen European truck racing on Motorsport Mundial . Could they race at Rockingham?

[Stephen Green]

That's an interesting question Liz, and I really don't have an answer. I would have thought they need to do some serious research into the matter and pretty soon as well.

The big problem with trucks are the enormous amount of damage they do to the track and barriers. I used to marshal at all the truck meetings at Brands Hatch until they stopped them. The trucks tend to rip the tarmac up if they are not careful and when they crash, the damage they do to armco etc is colossal. That on it's own means large amounts of time lost at meetings while safe repairs are made.

I believe that if we had another oval circuit in the country then it may have a greater chance of survival, but I would certainly put a second oval in the southern part of the country in order not to bunch the facilities too close together. The knock on effect would also be to draw from a wider spectator base.

Like many of the other members of Ten-Tenths, I would love to go to Rockingham for the CART race but cannot afford the prices. Nor would I chance the weather and missing the race if it were run a day or so late!

Stephen.

[Liz]

I hate to sound like a know-it-all, but doesn't anyone in Britain know about the concept of "feasibility study"? That is, before you take on a project you should decide what the end product will be and what steps you have to take to get there - and whether you can afford it?

Did they just wake up one morning and say "Hey, let's build an oval track in England like the Americans have!"

And what did they answer when somebody asked them "Why?"

[Stephen Green]

I agree.

I hadn't realised that Corby was the original choice for Euro Disney did you?