Ferrari - will they ever learn?

Kicking-back · 13 Oct 2005, 12:54 (Ref:1432680)

Whatever the whys and wherefores of the agreements on in-season testing, F1 has for years had two other conventions.

1) No testing from the last race until December 1.

2) No testing outside Europe.

So, our friends at the Scuderia plan this season to run at Vallelunga in October and at the start of November.

Then, to add insult to injury they'll have three days in Bahrain later in November.

Just when it looked like F1 people were realising they need to work together for the future, Mr Todt and co once again demonstrate arrogance in the extreme.

SpawnyWhippet · 13 Oct 2005, 13:01 (Ref:1432691)

Trouble is, Ferrari thinks its bigger than the sport, and the sport should defer to them, rather than the other way around. Lets see who watches when the manufacturers all leave to set up their own series and F1 is just Ferrari and the Red Bull teams.

Red · 13 Oct 2005, 13:22 (Ref:1432707)

That wasn't a convention, that was a rule (the no testing between last race untill 1 December) which they respected. Not a rule anymore. As for not testing outside Europe, I do vaguely remember quite a few teams testing in past years at Kyalami, South Afri.. I mean South-Europe. If it ever was a convention about that. But of course, our friends at the Scuderia are bigger than sport and add insults to injury.

**Adam43** · 13 Oct 2005, 14:01 (Ref:1432748)

Hey Red, nice to see you

I think the outside Europe part is unimportant. If you are testing in winter then it is arguably cheaper to test outside Europe.

Goinf agaisnt the November winter test ban is a significant change of policy so. Before that always used to be sacrosanct.

I guess if everyone hates you for testing more you might as well go the whole hog!

Snrub · 13 Oct 2005, 14:20 (Ref:1432767)

I have a lot of trouble understanding their logic on this issue.

chillibowl · 13 Oct 2005, 15:21 (Ref:1432809)

why not let them test!
their motivation is not hard to understand, they spend hundreds of millions of dollars and are looking to put the best drive together for an early roll out in jan.
compound that with the fact that the ban is just for on track testing and all teams will not doubt be running extensive tests within the confines of a building with a roof prior to dec. 1 anyways. to me letting them go on track only allows them a quicker turn around in development that will in the end let them put out a more competitive drive next year. if it was up to me everyone should be out there.
as far as cutting costs - thats just an illusion , smoke and mirrors, and i think we can all agree that to run a competitive F1 team you need to spend money and thats not going to change anytime soon.
and finally, can anyone put a number on gross revenue (from ticket sales, merchandise sales etc.) F1 has lost out on because the most popular team has had a dissmal season. (it is possible that because of ferrari's year more people tuned back in but imo as an aggregate more people tuned out than tuned in).
in any event i say let them test!

Inigo Montoya · 13 Oct 2005, 15:24 (Ref:1432812)

Caps key broken on your computer, chilli?

I don't see any problem with testing outside of Europe. Who cares? And as Red as pointed out, they are not breaking any rules, so again.. who cares?

D_Marshall · 13 Oct 2005, 15:27 (Ref:1432815)

Not a problem, no rules have been broken. I hope they test and beat everyone who moans about them doing so.

BootsOntheSide · 13 Oct 2005, 16:32 (Ref:1432863)

I take it the November testing ban is no longer active?

As for testing outside Europe, I don't see why that should be banned. With Formula 1 now racing in so many hot countries, it's vital that teams have an impression of how their new cars (especially in terms of brand-new V8 engines) will work in extreme heat. Remember 1999, when Stewart lost 2 cars and missed out on a possible win for that very reason?

It seems as if Ferrari are in the right, and KB has got the facts wrong - 2 things I don't say very often.

Knowlesy · 13 Oct 2005, 16:35 (Ref:1432867)

Ferrari aren't breaking written rules, but they are once again breaking basic ethics.

However, we should be used to this, so I am not really bothered about this.

Their testing relative to others seems to work on a reverse basis anyways, whereby the more they test relative to other teams, the further down the grid they fall. So it's fine by me.

Kicking-back · 13 Oct 2005, 16:38 (Ref:1432876)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

It seems as if Ferrari are in the right, and KB has got the facts wrong - 2 things I don't say very often.

Read it again

I didn't say they've broken any rules - merely that these have been conventions for some time

The facts I've given are accurate

Yes, there have been tests at Kyalami and Rio in the past - but all the teams agreed a few years ago not to test outside Europe

Red · 13 Oct 2005, 17:44 (Ref:1432934)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Read it again

Ok...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Then, to add insult to injury [...]

PS: Cheers Adam

Marbot · 13 Oct 2005, 18:55 (Ref:1432989)

Let's not forget that Ferrari are now testing for the benefit of Williams and Toyota.So everything will be alright K-b.

robert77 · 13 Oct 2005, 20:43 (Ref:1433063)

Bridgestone tyres come to mind!

**Bononi** · 13 Oct 2005, 20:50 (Ref:1433069)

If Ferrari will do it, what prevent the others teams to do the same ?

**touringlegend** · 13 Oct 2005, 21:22 (Ref:1433098)

Nothing, except the other teams have some morals and keep to their gentlemanly agreements.

Kicking-back · 13 Oct 2005, 21:23 (Ref:1433100)

Nothing.

Which is why it's better none do!

**Bononi** · 13 Oct 2005, 22:09 (Ref:1433128)

I dont cheat you if you don't cheat me.

"Itching and cheating - you just have to start"

Jordi · 13 Oct 2005, 22:14 (Ref:1433132)

I'm just sad they aren't coming to Montmeló...

Marbot · 14 Oct 2005, 02:02 (Ref:1433239)

I'm not sure how Ferrari took it,that the teams agreeing to a 30 day test limit cancelled out all previous agreements.

Isn't this how all real wars are started.

Bleu · 14 Oct 2005, 07:36 (Ref:1433347)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

I'm not sure how Ferrari took it,that the teams agreeing to a 30 day test limit cancelled out all previous agreements.

Isn't this how all real wars are started.

I think that is the point.

Ferrari had no problems to respect agreement that there is no testing in a week of Grand Prix, no testing in a 3-week "summer break", no testing within a month of season ending.

This year they have not respected those old agreements either. 30-day agreement by nine teams was something new.

Gerben24 · 14 Oct 2005, 07:42 (Ref:1433350)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

If Ferrari will do it, what prevent the others teams to do the same ?

Easy question. Answer money!
It was one of the reasons they came up with this testing ban. Unfortunately it is not a FIA rule. If my name was Jean Todt (or who-ever is making these decisions) and I would be in his position with Ferrari not being the top team at the moment, I would do the same!

Still, I hate it they're doing this. I think it is bad for Formula 1. I also don't understand why the FIA can't make an official rule of it, especially now that we have 3 topteams on the Bridgestones and 3 on the Michelins.

Gt_R · 14 Oct 2005, 08:15 (Ref:1433380)

It's not amusing that once again, Ferrari is being singled out for criticism.

The thing is that once again, people forgot how we came to this "30day agreement".

Ferrari has no problem with regards to the old agreement. Until the other teams (under the influence of a few) decided to agree to a NEW agreement without discussing with Ferrari. It's a simple case of "We have this new agreement, take it!".

Ferrari refused. Quite rightly. Firstly, it's clear that such a change is targetted at compromising Ferrari and BS developement. Secondly, to negate Ferrari's test track advantage, while working towards the other top teams advantage.

Ferrari stuck to their own ways, taking their own steps to save cost (which they need to due to financial issues from FIAT). They are not anti-cost savings...but they simply refuse to bow to dubious actions from external factors.

Seriously, do anybody think Mclaren's expenditure, or Renault's expenditure is lower than what they had the previous years?

Gt_R · 14 Oct 2005, 08:21 (Ref:1433386)

As for regards to why no teams are breaking this "agreement", it's interesting to call it "moral", because what is actually holding them together is rather the issue of "pressure" and "image".

It's unlikely smaller teams like Red Bull, Sauber, Minardi will break this rule because there is no way they can afford more testing anyways. And none of the other manufacturer teams, who join F1 for publicity, really want to be the one who "break" the agreement and be criticised by the media (as well as being the perfect excuse for other teams to follow suit). Let's just be realistic.

Morals? You mean like compromising tyre safety in Indiapolis, having a weird fuel tank, industrial spying and counter-bickering?

If they are serious about doing things for the better of sports, even if compromising their own benefits...then why... Honda is refusing to get rid of 3rd car next year? Ron refusing to reintroduce tyre-change while Flavio is all for it? etc etc...??

They all serve their own welfare first.

And yes, that's a fact.

Kicking-back · 14 Oct 2005, 10:00 (Ref:1433442)

What you have never been able to explain, G-tR is this.

Ferrari previously went along with the conventions of - no testing in the week before a race, no testing in the summer break, no testing between the last race and December, no testing outwith Europe.

If they didn't want to go along with the 30 day plan, that's up to them - but what I don't understand is why they've taken the position of "we don't want the 30 day rule, so we'll ignore everything we previously agreed with too".

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