Frank Williams fears "secret Ferrari advantage"

[Sodemo]

Just read over on Autosport that Frank is fearing an even more dominant 2005 season.
He believes that Ferrari might have found a secret advantage in building their 2005 car...

Your thoughts??

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

I think the secret advantage is called 'Micheal Schumacher'.

Aside from that I don't know. Maybe Frank is just trying to sow some seeds of doubt over the legality of the car or something, off-season maneuvering?

[Super Tourer]

Ferrari generally interpret the rules better than anyone, they obviously feel confident that an upgraded 2004 car will be competitive from the first 2005 race, giving them plenty of time to observe the competition whislt working on their definative 2005 car, which undoubtedly will have the usual attention to detail Ferrari employ.

On another note, I see that their V8 engine is already dyno testing and will be ready for track testing imminently.

[neil_davidson2]

Originally Posted by Super Tourer

Ferrari generally interpret the rules better than anyone, they obviously feel confident that an upgraded 2004 car will be competitive from the first 2005 race

Given the dominance of last year's car I would actually suspect that very little upgrading would be necessary for the 2004 Ferrari to be competitive in this coming season. As ST rightly says this will give them the opportunity to build a definitive 2005 car. Or if the 2004 upgrade is swift enough then they may choose to concentrate on the 2006 car giving them the edge for that season's new regs.

I think FW is right to be concerned about another dominant year but it's down to him and others like him to produce a car that can compete with the Ferraris.

[Glen]

Can someone less tight than myself, that has an Autosport subscription, please relate what else the feature says?

[Super Tourer]

FW doesn't pick up on anything specific, just a feeling that Ferrari will be innovative and clever.


“And I am just worried they have may have thought of something very, very clever and thought it is worth having a fresh start to get the best out of it. I hope I am wrong.”

[Raglanparade]

The fact that Ferrari start planning their cars almost a year in advance, and Williams are maybe 9 months behind Ferrari's schedule

thats the advantage

[spanner]

If he knows what the advantage is, then why doesnt he do something similiar on his cars!!

[jj2728]

Originally Posted by spanner

If he knows what the advantage is, then why doesnt he do something similiar on his cars!!

absolutely!...it seems like every year one or more of the 'other' team bosses chirps in with the 'ferrari this, ferrari that'...jesus, get on with the job at hand and give these guys some COMPETITION......

[Sodemo]

What BMW need to do is to produce a monster of an engine with an advantage over the rest like they had in 2001 with reportedly about 45bhp over the rest, which gave them about a 5mph advantage on the straights.

[Glen]

That's what is worrying him - he thinks they may have thought of something, but he doesn't know what.

By the way, I can't see any comment anywhere that leads to "Ferrari secret advantage"; as in Ferrari getting around the rules, or having inside information, or any other unfair thing. FW is simply saying that, given the big change in the rules, he expected Ferrari to need a completely new car frthe start of the season - and since they won't have a new car until San Marino he worries that this is because they are taking time to develop something radical.

[Super Tourer]

Last season both McLaren and Williams tried to 'out innovate' Ferrari which patently didn't work and led to hurried and expensive new versions of the cars.

The next bout of winter testing will be interesting and maybe more unrepresentative than usual, as the leading teams keep some of their best tricks for 1st practice in Australia...

As FW says they don't know what other solutions teams will have to clawing back downforce, they just have to hope theirs are as good, or better.

[Super Tourer]

Originally Posted by Glen

That's what is worrying him - he thinks they may have thought of something, but he doesn't know what.

By the way, I can't see any comment anywhere that leads to "Ferrari secret advantage"; as in Ferrari getting around the rules, or having inside information, or any other unfair thing. FW is simply saying that, given the big change in the rules, he expected Ferrari to need a completely new car frthe start of the season - and since they won't have a new car until San Marino he worries that this is because they are taking time to develop something radical.

yep - quite right - the only secret element is that FW doesn't know what Ferrari are working on - no more than Ferrari do about anyone else. It's just a comment that the delay hints that Ferrari may have something up their sleeve, possibly an element that Williams (or others) haven't thought of.

Probably doesn't instill great confidence in BMW that FW has a feeling (however slight) that Ferrari will come up with something better than Williams (yet again).

[Gt_R]

Worry and hope will only be useful if the worry spurs them to work harder and the hope gives them motivation.

Other teams should stop worrying and hoping about Ferrari and wish they are "wrong". Just get on with their own job, do the best they could with their resources... only when they have excess time do they start to worry.

The F2005 design is being delayed so as to maximise the time Ferrari have to understand the rules and to extract the most from their package. By the time Melbourn GP start,s the F2005 would be born, just that it's not sufficiently track tested. There's no secret to success in F1. Ferrari believes the first few races with the old car would be very difficult..but believe that the compromise is for the better for the remaining of the season.

[Kirk]

On the surface anyway, it appears that the pyschological advantage that Ferrari has enjoyed over Williams and McLaren is intact... it in fact has grown over the past few years. FW's statements reveal to me that until someone soundly beats Ferrari consistently, that advantage will continue. Hopefully this is just FW playing the off-season coy game. I'm sure Williams has a few innovations of their own. Winning that last race of '04 should have helped the cause (at least) for his team's moral.

[Gt_R]

in a way, yes i do thing that what happen has rattled the other traditional BIG teams a little. In 2002, they were largely beaten and walked over by Ferrari. In 2003, Ferrari won again for the 5th consecutive time..but the other big teams seeing that they ran Ferrari close, were so confident of overwhelming Ferrari in 2004..only to be torn into bits and humiliated. To rub salt to the wounds, the traditional big players are now struggling to beat the previous year's joke and they cant afford to repeat such seasons for another year.

What i found disappointing is that, prior to 2004, since the late 90s and the departure of Newey, Williams design has been relatively conservative and slow to react to changing trends, often following trends innovated by teams like Ferrari, Renault..and now even BAR. And when it seems to change with the Walrus nose, where Williams take a leap in their design, they get screwed upside down and lost a lot of momentum. Hopefully it won't put Williams back on the conservative threadmill.

[Rennen]

You will never know how much I want Ferrari to have another dominant year!

[Kicking-back]

To ensure Jenson doesn't meet his XX% of the championship leader's points by Y stage of the season.

[avsfan733]

Well i dout that the fact Ferrari is using the 2004 chassis says anythign, they have done that the past few years to make sure they really take there time over the winter and get the design right. Other teams seem to basically rush through design to test the thing but Ferrari is in a position of not having to catch up so they can be patient. IIRC, they stopped development of the 2004 back in like june or july so ever since then its been nothing but 2005 car. In that case it may not be a single radical change as the time to spend so many more hours on the car gettign it right. They are probably gonne just be starting the actual chassis build around the time the others are finishing the first cars for the launch.Plus by waiting to see how fast the other cars are, they can test and tune with a significant performance margin but leave any extra they have in the bag remember last year how the 2004 was incredibly fast outta the box and then kinda slowed down. well mid season we saw why when they needed to finally fuel position 2(the high performance setting) as opposed to the normal running in fuel position 0 and just left everyone in the dust

[Rich R]

i think williams missed a big opportunity at the end of 2001, when they were in accendance, to challenge ferrari, and have been playing catch up ever since(even in 03 they only won 4 races to ferrari's 8). i just think they need to stop worrying about what other teams are up to and set their own house in order, they have another good chance to move up on ferrari with 2 new drivers next season and all the teams (theoretically) starting with clean sheet designs demanded by the new regulations.

[Inigo Montoya]

Frank is making the excuses a bit early this year, don't you think

[Super Tourer]

Originally Posted by Rich R

and all the teams (theoretically) starting with clean sheet designs demanded by the new regulations.

I think that is the nub of the issue, Ferrari have the best overall design team and new regs and a clean sheet of paper play into their hands even more - as Sir FW has intimated with his Ferrari may do something 'very, very clever' comments.

Regulation change always favours the best resourced, most innovative and inventive teams.

[Logrence]

You're telling me there's a story in the fact that Frank Williams thinks Ferrari might do well this year?

And the award for the statement of the bleeding obvious goes to...

[Gt_R]

What i would like to point out is that Ferrari's performance next year is NOT garanteed. Other teams have shown how easy it is to fall off the ladder. A new rule change doesn't benefit Ferrari, has it basically erase whatever advantage in the current design they have and force everyone to start from the same level.

Ferrari have the potential to have a great 2005, simply because the team is working strongly together. Similarly, this is a good chance for Williams to get a leap on Ferrari. They have similar level of resource, of talent...and there's really no excuse for Williams to fail to challenge. In fact, there are a few stones in Ferrari's path now..and Williams should just use it to their advantage.

[ysofast]

I don't believe ferrari's advantage is pooled in the current car. It is the team and m.s. at the helm that gives them the advantage. The rule changes, assuming I am right, will continue there advantage not reduce it.