Does Manning have good gears between the ears

Bluewolf · 14 Jan 2006, 21:58 (Ref:1501349)

I read a lot of discussion about Darren Manning and how some people feel he was given a raw deal stateside . Well -- Chip Ganassi's is not a fool -- He knows more about racing than anyone in this forum. He wouldn't drop any driver if he felt the driver had what it takes. Darren obviously has a lot of natural ability and so he got a shot with a top line team but he hasn't proven so far that that he's got the gears between the ears to make good ontrack decisions. I've been watching open wheel racing since the 70's and he looks to me like he simply has no patience ontrack and therefore ends up in the wall too often. The guys that stick around year after year are the guys that, when they have the fastest car -- they win the race -- and when they don't have the fastest car -- they bring the car home in one piece and in the points. Maybe Manning will end up being a huge force in the next few years --but clearly, the jury is still out on this guy. So far I believe he doesn't see the big picture.

Alwaysfirst · 14 Jan 2006, 22:20 (Ref:1501363)

So how do you explain the fact that when Ganassi threw him out he had scored more points than 2003 champion Scott Dixon? How do you explain the fact that Ganassi threw him out when he had less than half the number of wrecks that Briscoe had? How do you explain the fact that after he had left (Watkins Glen aside) the amount of points that Ganassi were getting dropped even more, even though it had been a pretty dire year anyway? The main answer is that Ganassi couldn't throw out Briscoe because he was bringing a large amount of money from Toyota & Dixon was a champion so he will have a following & it would make Ganassi look plain stupid if he had fired him. Many of the accidents that Manning has had have not been through his driver error (unlike Briscoe) but through the errors of others, just making him look worse than he really is. How anybody cannot see that, if given the right car, Manning could become one of the top drivers in America is beyond me.

Bluewolf · 14 Jan 2006, 23:24 (Ref:1501398)

Always - he had more points when he left because he had a good heady start to the season - then after motegi his frustration starts to show -- he begins getting in accidents and having poor results -- he brings the car in for "Handling problems" at milwakee and that was it for Ganassi -- Manning was clearly going in the wrong direction, just look at the stats -- and this business of others being all the cause of his accidents doesn't fly - they all have other drivers mistakes do deal with so that's a wash. Some drivers never put their car in places during a race that constitutes ridiculously "shakey ground" but Manning and Townsend Bell do it all the time -- I'm not saying Manning isn't talented but he's just not using his head and his frustration on the track showed after his very respectable start of the 2005 season. Bottom line - Ganassi knows more about racing than both of us right -- 'nuff said

marcus · 14 Jan 2006, 23:51 (Ref:1501401)

I think the reason dixon stayed is because he is a proven champion plain and simple , the reason briscoe stayed is because he is Toyotas boy plain and simple.

whats left , Darren had to go in Chips eyes.

Refutation · 15 Jan 2006, 06:27 (Ref:1501480)

Chips the big winner in the end again anyway. He's got Dan Wheldon and Scott Dixon, both champions and proven winners, and have been teammates in the past. Andy Brown has joined up to work with Dan's side of the team. Those two worked together in 2002 when Dan was a test driver at Panther. The last two seasons will be nothing more then a bad memory once this Season starts.

Down F0rce · 15 Jan 2006, 12:45 (Ref:1501618)

Hopefully Dan will be able to bring thier set-ups up to scratch. Assuming he can do it on his own, and didn't need the help of his three team mates.

pink69 · 15 Jan 2006, 17:55 (Ref:1501774)

Same could be said for Tomas Scheckter. Bags full of talent but put his car in the wall far too often, even tho he was often top Infiniti runner back before Honda and Toyota. Ganassi did the same to him too I believe. Thing is, name me one driver in the IRL who hasn't put their car into the wall one time or another!

mac · 15 Jan 2006, 23:48 (Ref:1502008)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus

the reason briscoe stayed is because he is Toyotas boy plain and simple.

And because he was the quickest of the three on road courses, and at the time represented the team's best hope of winning a race in the season.

pink69 · 15 Jan 2006, 23:50 (Ref:1502010)

The same reason they brought Pantano in, he had road racing experience and was pretty quick with it. Would have suited Darren too so perhaps the wrong time to replace him.

BootsOntheSide · 24 Jan 2006, 21:03 (Ref:1508377)

Scott Dixon has a lot to do to prove that he deserves the drive for next season. Tomas Scheckter was accompilshed at setting the car up, and that's waht they lsot from 2004 and onwards. Also worth remembering that the non-Penske-modified Toyotas were not competitive at all in 2004 or 2005, in any team's hands. I think Marcus has the correct explanation - contracts made it impossible to axe anyone else, and Chio realsied there was no point in running 3 uncompetitive cars.

D70s · 25 Jan 2006, 00:59 (Ref:1508520)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

realsied there was no point in running 3 uncompetitive cars.

Then why did he keep running three cars until Briscoe's accident?

BootsOntheSide · 28 Jan 2006, 15:24 (Ref:1510777)

Jacques Lazier had experience and proven setup knowledge - he could potentially add something to the team.

davyboy · 28 Jan 2006, 16:32 (Ref:1510805)

I raced karts against Darren Manning years ago and he was fabulous. I was so excited to seem him scale the ranks. He has a lot of natural ability and certainly showed us a good deal of it in Formula 3000 but throughout his career he's sadly never been able to take it the last inch where it really counts. He did OK at Ganassi, arguably better than Dixon and Briscoe, but in order to secure his place at that team, he would have had to have been ten feet taller than them in terms of performance, results and points [for the reasons already mentioned above]. I'm sure Darren knew that. For a variety of reasons, often not of his own doing, it didn't happen and Darren's again where he shouldn't be... out of a drive in a top tier series. Its of little consolation for Darren to know that the motorsport archive is littered with highly talented nearlymen.

Mystery · 30 Jan 2006, 13:41 (Ref:1511915)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

I raced karts against Darren Manning years ago and he was fabulous. I was so excited to seem him scale the ranks. He has a lot of natural ability and certainly showed us a good deal of it in Formula 3000 but throughout his career he's sadly never been able to take it the last inch where it really counts. He did OK at Ganassi, arguably better than Dixon and Briscoe, but in order to secure his place at that team, he would have had to have been ten feet taller than them in terms of performance, results and points [for the reasons already mentioned above]. I'm sure Darren knew that. For a variety of reasons, often not of his own doing, it didn't happen and Darren's again where he shouldn't be... out of a drive in a top tier series. Its of little consolation for Darren to know that the motorsport archive is littered with highly talented nearlymen.

A bit off topic maybe but I can't help thinking that Britain has far more than its fair share of highly talented nearlymen. But then again probably all of us could point to 20 people from our own countries who should have made it but didnt but perhaps what I'm really driving at is....when was the last time you heard a British guy get a drive because of the size of the budget he brings.....

davyboy · 31 Jan 2006, 10:11 (Ref:1512565)

You're right, Britain's had a ton of nearlymen over the years. The Racing for Britain scheme in the 1980s was an effort to stem it somewhat and to a certain extent it worked. Looks like Danny Watts moving to UK Porsches this year is another one... real pity.

Knowlesy · 31 Jan 2006, 12:52 (Ref:1512691)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

And because he was the quickest of the three on road courses, and at the time represented the team's best hope of winning a race in the season.

I really failed to see this...

Mystery · 1 Feb 2006, 13:49 (Ref:1513510)

Manning was in the wrong place at the wrong time - very simple as far as I can see. He was clearly in my view the most consistently quick of the 3 drivers, however Dixon is a former champ and CG was never going to drop him. Briscoe was paid for by someone else so if Chip was going to cut the team down he could have only dropped Manning. If one of the team members knew how to set up the car up properly then none of this would have probably happened at all, but I guess that's in the past now, and the reputations of all those involved have probably suffered to some extent.

mac · 1 Feb 2006, 23:07 (Ref:1513869)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowlesy

I really failed to see this...

Are you serious?

Everytime IndyCars went testing on a road course, Briscoe was always the quickest of the three ...... from his very first test day! He also brained the rest of the field the majority of the time. And he nearly won at St Petersburg ......

And I know it was after Manning's sacking, but he qualified on pole and raced away from the field at Infineon - until the yellows.

If he had made it to The Glen (where he topped the timesheets in early season testing), I've no doubt he would have been fighting for the win. Briscoe at The Glen was Ganassi's best chance of a win in '05 - and I am sure that regardless of Toyota money, that would have played a big part in who stayed and who went.

Knowlesy · 3 Feb 2006, 16:20 (Ref:1514900)

Well he was good on road courses, yes, but when it came to race weekends he did falter in one way or another.

I mean, yes, he was impressive at Infineon. Until he ended up in the pack after the yellows and he completely lost his bloody marbles.

He didn't seem to have it quite right in the end. Had he raced at Watkins Glen I should imagine he would have blown it again.

And away from the point, he was sometimes useless on the ovals.

A guy of his talent should have done better IMO. Hopefully he will get back on track this season wherever he may be racing.

drdisque · 3 Feb 2006, 17:09 (Ref:1514932)

Briscoe really belonged in GP2 all along, The Indycar has to be manhandled a lot more than the F3000, GP2, or even F1 cars and I don't think he ever really got used to it.

Wheldon is really an amazing talent with how fast he picked it up. Also evidenced by how fast he picked up the Grand Am car.

we're way off topic now

Mystery · 6 Feb 2006, 11:08 (Ref:1516483)

Ok - back to topic then. Looking back at the OP....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluewolf

I read a lot of discussion about Darren Manning and how some people feel he was given a raw deal stateside . Well -- Chip Ganassi's is not a fool -- He knows more about racing than anyone in this forum. He wouldn't drop any driver if he felt the driver had what it takes. Darren obviously has a lot of natural ability and so he got a shot with a top line team but he hasn't proven so far that that he's got the gears between the ears to make good ontrack decisions. I've been watching open wheel racing since the 70's and he looks to me like he simply has no patience ontrack and therefore ends up in the wall too often. The guys that stick around year after year are the guys that, when they have the fastest car -- they win the race -- and when they don't have the fastest car -- they bring the car home in one piece and in the points. Maybe Manning will end up being a huge force in the next few years --but clearly, the jury is still out on this guy. So far I believe he doesn't see the big picture.

In my view Darren may have needed a bit more patience with the (clearly very poor) car he had last year. He showed he can drive an oval very quickly when he did his one-off drive at Rockingham a couple of years back, but I think frustration with the car got the better of him - much as it did more often with Briscoe. To say he hasnt got "good gears between the ears" I think is unbelievably harsh, but I would like to think you didnt mean it quite like that.

Bluewolf · 7 Feb 2006, 21:47 (Ref:1517550)

You're right Mystery -- I didn't mean it that way -- I asked it as a question not as a statement -- I'm not saying he doesn't have good gears between the ears, but rather, I'm asking what do others think because I'm up in the air about it myself. The start of last season was very solid for him, but then, I believe, his immense desire to be running at the front with a toyota engine that was "less than steller" created a frustration within him that overshadowed good ontrack judgement.

Mystery · 7 Feb 2006, 23:19 (Ref:1517632)

Agreed 100%. Wrong place at the wrong time for him. Seems his entire US career his seen him in good teams but always with the wrong chassis or engine. I recall his year in CC had him as the top runner in his chassis 9 times out of 10

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