Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 8 Apr 2004, 10:00 (Ref:934194)   #1
oziengineer
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
newcastle australia
Posts: 233
oziengineer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
F1 Qualifying

Over two years, we have seen F1 change quite dramatically, esp in qualifying. Which system was better, because you can see some drivers, like montoya and coulthard prefer the old system and it shows in the amount of poles that they have bagged. Particularly with monty, who got 7 in 2002 and 1 in 2003.
oziengineer is offline  
__________________
Fortune Favours the Brave
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2004, 10:13 (Ref:934204)   #2
Kicking-back
Registered User
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
That has more to do with cars and tyres than it does the qualifying changes.
Kicking-back is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2004, 10:21 (Ref:934209)   #3
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 44,191
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Yes Montoya had a car in 2001 that he could bully onto pole, he hasn't had as good a one lap car (and tyres as k-b said) in the last year and a bit...

A general point, well I think that the old system was more exciting -
The laps were more balls out
Everyone got a chance to respond to someone elses great lap (now only the last person out gets to respond and this is the only lap with any tension now...)

and, God forbid, it was fairer! (Crickey what has fair got to do with GP racing!).

and the fuel rule is daft and IMHO doesn't help mixing the grid for the race (I would like someone on a two stop to line up ahead of someone on a 3 stop - that is a mixed grid).

Still, it would take a miracle to get everyone to agree to a change...
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Brum brum
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2004, 10:27 (Ref:934212)   #4
oziengineer
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
newcastle australia
Posts: 233
oziengineer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Why did they bring in one lappers anyway? was it another act of cost cutting nazism, because it is all round c r apness
oziengineer is offline  
__________________
Fortune Favours the Brave
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2004, 10:43 (Ref:934222)   #5
Gt_R
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location:
Singapore
Posts: 5,917
Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Partly because in the old system, teams usually only run after halfway through the hour...which means spectators are left baking in the sun for almost 30mins of NOTHING before witnessing a mad dash... and smaller teams hence lost out vital air-time as TV cameras catch the red, blue/white, or silver cars only.
Gt_R is offline  
__________________
Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to."
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2004, 10:53 (Ref:934233)   #6
BootsOntheSide
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
England
Eastbourne, England
Posts: 13,000
BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
One shot qualifying tends to be exciting in Superbikes, and I'm convinced that one hour was too long for the older system, because the cars spent so long in the garages.

The toruble is, it can be very random, especially when rain itnervened - that session at Suzuka last eyar was ridiculous. They have to go back to a 12-lap session in the event of rain, and I suspect they will the next time it happens.
BootsOntheSide is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2004, 11:12 (Ref:934253)   #7
hamsmith
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Southampton,England
Posts: 319
hamsmith should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I prefered the old system where you could see the lap times gradually getting better as the drivers get to understand the conditions of the track over four lots of out,hot and in laps. i used to love it when in the last few minutes all the cars would pile out on the track and give it everything they could to put in the fastess lap.
I miss the excitment of not really knowing who will be on pole untill the last minute.
Now if the driver you are rooting for goes out and cocks up you feel a little disapointed. at least with the old style quali he could of had another bash.
Teams do need to be forced to take some of there runs earlier in the session though.

Last edited by hamsmith; 8 Apr 2004 at 11:14.
hamsmith is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2004, 13:19 (Ref:934357)   #8
frederick
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 97
frederick should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm not such a big fan of the 12 lap free-for-all because you never know which car you should be looking at when your'e at the track and the TV director doesn't know when you're at home.....too often you don't know about the hot lap until it's over and a time appears on screen

The one lap screamer is good because you get to watch the whole lap for each car, you can play "spot the difference" with regard to car and/or driver

IMHO i don't think they need to change much as it stands now.......just make BOTH runs count towards a grid position having a qualifying run that is ignored in favour of another one right after it is just fecking bizarre.....IMHO
frederick is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2004, 13:46 (Ref:934398)   #9
CamF1
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Australia
Posts: 76
CamF1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think both versions have their good and bad points. Personally I like the older system pre '96, two one hour sessions, 12 laps and the best time of the two sessions is used.
CamF1 is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2004, 17:30 (Ref:934608)   #10
krt917
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Fleet
Posts: 1,814
krt917 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridkrt917 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by frederick
I'm not such a big fan of the 12 lap free-for-all because you never know which car you should be looking at when your'e at the track and the TV director doesn't know when you're at home.....too often you don't know about the hot lap until it's over and a time appears on screen

The one lap screamer is good because you get to watch the whole lap for each car, you can play "spot the difference" with regard to car and/or driver
That's the best argument for the new system I've heard: it is good to see all of each lap, but, on balance I agree with Adam:

Quote:
Originally posted by AdamAshmore
A general point, well I think that the old system was more exciting -
The laps were more balls out
Everyone got a chance to respond to someone elses great lap (now only the last person out gets to respond and this is the only lap with any tension now...)
and, God forbid, it was fairer! (Crickey what has fair got to do with GP racing!).
I'd rather the genuinely quickest car-driver combo be on pole. There is obviously skill to getting pole with just one shot, but I don't really think it's what qualifyng should be about. And that's before we get onto the silly fuel loads....
krt917 is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2004, 20:16 (Ref:934728)   #11
Michael S
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location:
Somerset
Posts: 10
Michael S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Keep the same system as now but add a 10 or 15 min session at the end for a free for all but allow no changes to the car.
Michael S is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Apr 2004, 20:59 (Ref:934755)   #12
Schummy
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Schummy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location:
Somewhere near 2nd Lagrangian point
Posts: 3,282
Schummy has a real shot at the podium!Schummy has a real shot at the podium!Schummy has a real shot at the podium!Schummy has a real shot at the podium!Schummy has a real shot at the podium!
If they revert to a 12-lap qualify format, I'd prefer they use a lap time info as in FIM bike sessions: 4 split time zones around the track, color code for best overall split time and best personal split time, and real time clocks for two or three drivers at the same time if necessary.

I always thought FIM GP's screen info is a lot better than F1's. LOL, I even think CART's screen info is better! And now in F1 they have done a new format with tiny characters and the same scarce info than before, the worst of both worlds! . I suppose the big names in F1 have huge screens in their homes...
Schummy is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Apr 2004, 02:00 (Ref:934899)   #13
slicktoast
Veteran
 
slicktoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location:
Axtel,Oh,USA
Posts: 731
slicktoast should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

Didn't go into effect to stop the whine: "I was on a flyer but so 'n so held me up."
slicktoast is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Apr 2004, 02:33 (Ref:934917)   #14
Wrex
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Wrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Australia
Melbourne - Home of the Australian GP
Posts: 7,643
Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!
I have been promoting 1 lap Superpole since I started here, and still support it.

The 12 lap qualifying does'nt punish mistakes, and I would rather see a driver risking it all over 1 lap than doing a couple of bankers and taking 1 swipe at at the last minute.

I also think 1 lap quals gives another skill for some to be strong at, and others to be weak. Another thing for the driver to get right. IMO, the more mistakes a driver makes, or the more skills a driver must have, the better it is for F1.

However, I never wanted them to have to do it with fuel. I propose 1 of the 2 following sessions.

1) Have it like it was last season, a session on Friday and a session on Saturday (no race fuel in each) and combine the times.

2) Have a 1 hour qual session on the Friday, then a Superpole (no fuel) for the TOP 10 on the Saturday.
Wrex is offline  
__________________
#Keepfightingmichael
Quote
Old 9 Apr 2004, 05:19 (Ref:934956)   #15
ljakse
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Serbia
Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 1,341
ljakse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridljakse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by frederick
I'm not such a big fan of the 12 lap free-for-all because you never know which car you should be looking at when your'e at the track and the TV director doesn't know when you're at home.....too often you don't know about the hot lap until it's over and a time appears on screen

The one lap screamer is good because you get to watch the whole lap for each car, you can play "spot the difference" with regard to car and/or driver

IMHO i don't think they need to change much as it stands now.......just make BOTH runs count towards a grid position having a qualifying run that is ignored in favour of another one right after it is just fecking bizarre.....IMHO
As krt917 already sad - this is the best supporting argument for one-lap quals so far, but still, I'd add a few changes.
Give them an hour (a lap each) both on friday and saturday, and take the better time for the grid.

And let them refuel. No set-up changes or engine re-tuning, but just let them qualify and leave the tactics for the race.
ljakse is offline  
__________________
Let it be
Quote
Old 9 Apr 2004, 14:21 (Ref:935238)   #16
climb
Veteran
 
climb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
St Pierre and Miquelon
closer than you thought!
Posts: 4,512
climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Honestly I like the current system; it's not true that this one is less fair than the previous; ok now there is a (rare) risk about weather, but with the old system there was a (very frequent) risk about traffic.
climb is offline  
__________________
You got to learn how to fall, before you learn to fly
P.Simon
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2004, 21:14 (Ref:936048)   #17
f1atic
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 265
f1atic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There was something to be said for the 'old' system of drivers having an hour and 12 laps to put it together, but all too often everything happened in the final 10 to 15 minutes. Half of the time, Ferrari, McLaren, and Williams wouldn't even venture onto the track until there was but 20 minutes left.

I think that last season saw a very good system that made for some interesting racing. It gave some of the teams with smaller budgets a shot at pole and some camera coverage in both qualifying and very importantly, in the race.

Aside from tyres and overall performance, the qualifying system utilized last season favored the driver (not always the same one) who could most quickly adapt to the track, usually from one of the top teams.

The one thing that I have truly favored about last season and this one is that they must run the same car, in the same condition in which it qualified. Prior to last year, teams like Ferrari, Williams, McLaren and probably even Toyota, Jag and BAR, qualified with an engine designed ONLY for that purpose. This system, by design, favored the teams with the best budgets and provided an imbalance to the field automatically.
f1atic is offline  
__________________
Life is not a spectator sport!
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2004, 21:26 (Ref:936059)   #18
Damon
Veteran
 
Damon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
United Kingdom
Hampshire, England
Posts: 5,577
Damon should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
We had this very debate at the pub the other night and came up with a system that, imho, would work really rather well. Bernie seems set on keeping this 1 lap thing, while the fans want a return to the system of old. The additional problem we have this year is that the first half that decides the order is pretty much a waste of time as no one bothers pushing very hard in the knowledge that the track condition isn't going to be different much if they go a little earlier in the session as cars are running constantly.

The idea we had was to return it to a one hour session on the friday and a one hour session on the saturday. The friday session will be used to decide the order for the saturday as it did last year but will run in the good old fashioned way of each driver having one hour and 12 laps to set their best possible time. Then on the saturday Bernie can have his single lap gubbins, but pole is an aggregate of the two sessions times. What do you reckon? It would certainly mix things up and give the fans, the teams and Bernie exactly what they want. Everyone wins!
Damon is offline  
__________________
Brought to you by Glagnar's Human Rinds: "A-bunch-a-munch-crunch-a-human"
Quote
Old 10 Apr 2004, 21:45 (Ref:936076)   #19
Knowlesy
20KPINAL
 
Knowlesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
Knowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
That would be excellent. But it wouldn't happen would it?!?
Knowlesy is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Apr 2004, 07:50 (Ref:936278)   #20
Kicking-back
Registered User
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The one lap system is good because of that element of risk - do you push too hard and go off, or play safe and slip down the grid.

And the fuel regulation is good because it stops teams making a separate "qualifying car".
Kicking-back is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Apr 2004, 10:00 (Ref:936351)   #21
oziengineer
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
newcastle australia
Posts: 233
oziengineer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It might be good theoretically, but a shorter, say 40 min 12 lap session would see a much more interesting fight for pole.
oziengineer is offline  
__________________
Fortune Favours the Brave
Quote
Old 11 Apr 2004, 13:39 (Ref:936494)   #22
BootsOntheSide
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
England
Eastbourne, England
Posts: 13,000
BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by Damon
We had this very debate at the pub the other night and came up with a system that, imho, would work really rather well. Bernie seems set on keeping this 1 lap thing, while the fans want a return to the system of old. The additional problem we have this year is that the first half that decides the order is pretty much a waste of time as no one bothers pushing very hard in the knowledge that the track condition isn't going to be different much if they go a little earlier in the session as cars are running constantly.

The idea we had was to return it to a one hour session on the friday and a one hour session on the saturday. The friday session will be used to decide the order for the saturday as it did last year but will run in the good old fashioned way of each driver having one hour and 12 laps to set their best possible time. Then on the saturday Bernie can have his single lap gubbins, but pole is an aggregate of the two sessions times. What do you reckon? It would certainly mix things up and give the fans, the teams and Bernie exactly what they want. Everyone wins!
Sounds like some good drinking buddies you've got there - msot of mine aren't into F1 at all.

I really like this suggestion. The other good thing about aggregating the times is that the significance of running a heavier car in qualifying (and thus making mroe pitstops in the race) is halved. This will encourage different strategic choices, and give more chance of cars having to overtake.

And as for the accusations of 'cost-cutting Nazism' (and please don't use the n-word again - that involved the slaughter of 6 million plus people one man didn't like - ths involves changing the rule sof a sport), believe me that changes will need to be made to keep teams alive. Throughout F1 history the rule shave been reined in for various reasons, and it's essentail to keep the sport alive.
BootsOntheSide is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Apr 2004, 13:53 (Ref:936505)   #23
DriverT
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
United Kingdom
Silverstone
Posts: 2,147
DriverT should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I agree, that's a really nice suggestion. It may give something a bit closer, especially for drivers like DC who is only just starting to come to terms with the 1-lap qualifying.
DriverT is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Apr 2004, 09:35 (Ref:937144)   #24
Pingguest
Veteran
 
Pingguest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Netherlands
Heemstede, The Netherlands
Posts: 3,195
Pingguest should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I would like to see a 45 minutes normal qualifying, without a limit of maximum laps. If the drivers want to drive more than 12, 20 or 25 laps in qualifying, they should have the opportunity to do so. Afther the 45 minutes qualifying the top-3 will get points. The pole-sitter will get three points, the second two, and third one point.

Afther the 45 qualifying, there would be a superpole-session for the top-8. The drivers with the superpole will get one point. The parc fermé-rules will be abolished.
Pingguest is offline  
Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Qualifying mabs_nsx IRL Indycar Series 1 29 Apr 2005 07:34
Qualifying (again!) F J Nedos Australasian Touring Cars. 3 25 Apr 2005 12:55
Sat Qualifying Sodemo Formula One 105 24 Apr 2004 20:50
F1 Qualifying?? Stuart Hill Formula One 12 3 Mar 2003 10:03
Qualifying Jay Formula One 19 18 Mar 2001 06:27


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.