MG Car Club stopping running race meetings?

[andy97]

I have just seen a news release that the MG Trophy (not really historic but bear with me) is going to join up with CSCC because the MG CC is apparently stopping running race meetings.
Anyone know any more, and know where the other series are heading, as if true will affect the historic/ classic MGBs and Midgets/ Spridgets too, or will drivers just find series that best fits their cars and disperse?

[ChrisA]

That's a shame. Their meetings were always well supported.

[kipper]

I believe the club was struggling to make race meetings financially viable. I believe it stemmed from the fact that they used to sell quite a bit and of track time to Equipe GTS, which ceased when they started running their own meetings.

Also the Metros moved to the BRSCC this year, which further reduced the content available to the MGCC and reduced the viability of their meetings.

[ChrisA]

Coming up to their 100th year too. Maybe a special meeting at Silverstone?

[midgetman]

Midgets are moving to CSCC as well.

Who knows what is going on with MGCC? Or indeed if the club has a future without race meetings? I've been a member on and off since 1982 and TBH the USP of the club has been its race meetings. Without it, the MGCC is just another old car club.

Short sighted decision IMO. And if Equipe, CSCC et al can make race meetings pay why can't MGCC?

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[andy97]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Midgets are moving to CSCC as well.

Who knows what is going on with MGCC? Or indeed if the club has a future without race meetings? I've been a member on and off since 1982 and TBH the USP of the club has been its race meetings. Without it, the MGCC is just another old car club.

Short sighted decision IMO. And if Equipe, CSCC et al can make race meetings pay why can't MGCC?

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I had heard about the Midgets, but not sure it’s been formally announced yet?

CSCC Magnificent 7s guested on the MGCC bill at Oulton earlier this year and it was a pretty quiet paddock with loads of space. I assume that they just have not attracted enough racers, particularly being largely limited to one marque, and the polishers felt that they were subsidising the racers. ISTR AMOC went through a similar issue.

[The Fat Clerk]

I think you'll find that most clubs are struggling.
Circuits have put the prices up for next year by quite large amounts and with falling numbers of Competitors as well next year is going to be a bigger struggle than 2023.

[coppice]

The big issue is that we have too many rival race organisers fishing in the same pool, especially in historic racing . There are still plenty of people out there , but they are spread thin in different series.

I welcome the initiative shown by CSCC and others in working together and including guest spots in race meetings, and multi class races . If we want to attract and retain interest in historic racing then tiny grids of cars need to be avoided .

[Plantagenet]

As an ex-MGCC racer, this is a pity but not a surprise. What the MGCC did really well was single model, entry level racing.
They have been caught off slightly by the fashion for multi-model series - see this rise and rise of CSCC.
But ultimately, entry-level racing faces an existential crisis. MSUK gives lots of lip-service to helping grass roots but the reality is that costs have increased significantly. Some of these are outside their control - such as the cost of petrol to get to and from races - but the entry costs and costs of ever-increasing safety requirements are simply bonkers for people who aren't well off.

[Peter Mallett]

I raced with them some years ago and have often slotted into a one off race on an ad hoc basis. Always well organised, although they suffered from lack of marshals occaisionally. The annual International event at Silverstone was always worth a visit, but that became MG Live and this year was MG/Triumph International (I think). This main event was effectively subsidised by Silverstone because the track hire was free to the club.

But I suspect for the last few years they've been paying Silverstone the full price for the use of the circuit. Add to that they have to run on the full GP circuit and the costs are signiificant.

Also many of their entrants are now running on the Equipe GTS card.

It is just an old car club, with an ever increasingly aged membership. My local coven in Aylesbury could care less about motor racing, much prefering to polish their cars and drive them to a pub.

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by Plantagenet

But ultimately, entry-level racing faces an existential crisis. MSUK gives lots of lip-service to helping grass roots but the reality is that costs have increased significantly. Some of these are outside their control - such as the cost of petrol to get to and from races - but the entry costs and costs of ever-increasing safety requirements are simply bonkers for people who aren't well off.

[midgetman]

The MG Car Club was the major part of my sporting and social life for 30+ years, but when I stopped racing in the late '00s I let my membership lapse. During lockdown I renewed with the idea of getting involved again in autotests, speed events and whatever. With the first Safety Fast I realised nothing had changed. Nothing. Same people, same events, same cars. The photography was interchangeable with 20, 30, 40 years previously as were the characters involved.

If you cut me I bleed brown and cream, but these days I can't find the interest to be involved further. I went to our local meet, and at 60 I was so much the youngest person there (mentally if not physically) that I haven't been back. I tried but...........

What worked up to the 1980s clearly isn't the right prescription now. I'm not sure the Club realises.

Oh. And what Plantagenet says is so true. MSUK is only interested if you want a "career" in Motorsport, not a hobby. That's so clear at karting level, has been for some time.

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[Peter Mallett]

I concur. I remain a member because I have an MG and there are some great people in the club, but the magazine is stale, the articles are rehashed from previous years and as you say, the photography is pretty generic. I made the age point earlier but it is worth noting that the MGOC is also suffering from that problem.

If you attend a non affiliated cars and coffee event, you'll notice that the average age of attendees is 30 ish. They are still interested in cars but not necessarily a particular marque.

[VIVA GT]

I think that age is a reason that many things I've been used to all my life are changing and I feel that this is very prominent in the world of classic/historic motoring.
In general terms people take a greater interest in things that they personally can relate to. From a work point of view (despite my Vauxhall nickname on here) I have been heavily involved with Fast Fords in road and competition forms since the first Sierra Cosworth's in 1987. At the moment there is still strong interest in these cars, sometimes from the generation who would have owned (or loved to have owned) them at the time, or the next generation down who remember their parents admiration of the cars. However as time goes on this 'appeal' becomes somewhat diluted.
When I first started attending race meetings (especially 'club racing meetings') in the 70's, cars that were involved were often home-built and looked after at the track by the driver, his family and his mates, so things were (or appeared to be) reasonably affordable. More recently things appear to have become 'more professional' where drivers have their cars prepared for them (and sometimes event taken to the track and run for them) which has significantly added to the cost of competing. On top of this (and I'm not saying that this is a bad thing) safety costs in the way of clothing, equipment, car preparation and the circuits have also increased dramatically which must also had a deferential effect on the number of people who can compete, thereby reducing the numbers. (I also realise that 'back before my time' it was maybe easier/cheaper/(but also) more dangerous to compete in any motorsport).
I have no answers as to how this can be turned around, but do see it as a reason why circuit motor-racing is moving away from normal working people, and becoming an even more elitist sport.

[delta]

Sitting in Ferry having a beer last night and I was going to put up new thread post . “Have we had the best years motor racing “. You are spot on Viv with your thoughts . As it’s often said the world is changing and everything is just so expensive . We have had Covid , Wars , Brexit and so on . I honestly can’t see a way back now for the bloke on the street to go motor racing . Track days are good value for money especially the Javalin days we do . We took the Marcos to Combe last Monday and had open circuit all day for £210.00. Happy Days.

[Peter Mallett]

Here's a bit more info. BCV8s and MG Cup going to Equipe GTS.

[Mike Harte]

It's a perennial problem, costs rising over the years. I found out that, even racing on a shoestring in the 60s, that I couldn't afford to compete competitively after 1970.

The late 60s saw meaningful sponsorship gradually creeping in, and although most of my contemporaries also did most of their own fettling, as I did, their sponsorship permitted them to bring in newer cars with better bits of absolutely everything, whether it was engines or suspension or brakes.

I always reckoned that it cost me in the region of £5,000 all in to race for around 5 years, including "buying" the Anglia and building everything to go racing and rebuilds.

In 1970, I decided to bite the bullet and invest in a twin cam to try to keep up with the growing band of quicker cars. However, my girlfriend the decided that we should get married and the loan I was going to get, for nearly 10 grand for an engine, would be better converted to a mortgage to buy a house and get married; and who can disagree with SWIMBO!

I know I've said this before, but for the same 10 grand, you can today buy a twinkie with even more horses than back then.

As to open track days, I seem to recall that it cost about a fiver at Brands on Saturdays in the 60s when no other meetings were taking place.

[Derwent]

Having been in the MGCC for 40+ years as a competitor and organiser I would agree with what Viva and others say. I did the original Equipe GTS series when it was not for profit, and most folk were like me with the MG on a trailer behind the road car. Now the commercialized GTS series sees transporters and motorhomes filling the paddock. Normal people are being squeezed out.
I am also an official of my local motor club here in Cumbria. It's evolved over the years, through road/stage rallying, speed events, historic, targa etc. A large classic show and lots of classic tours. all marques are welcome and we have just passed 1,000 members.
I see most one make clubs struggling now. While our local runs used to have loads of MGs on them, many members have got more modern sports cars, MZ5, Z4, SL etc but still have the MG in the garage. A year ago I sold a BGT I had restored during COVID when I got a silly offer for it, and I bought an MX5. 2 litre, LSD, hood that goes up in ten seconds. What not to like?
A couple of months ago a I wrote an article for SF outlining how I thought the club needed updating and offering some help. It was not even acknowledged. Sadly I think the club is in terminal decline.

[andy97]

As has been said, a lot of clubs are struggling, even some previously successful ones, and it is only going to get worse.
I am sure the break even point on grid sizes for different clubs is slightly different but it won’t be too different. I remember 10-12 years ago when I was on the committee at CSCC we had what appeared to be a successful 2 day meeting at Rockingham; grid sizes on average were pretty reasonable, but maybe just 1 or 2 cars down on the norm. The meeting cost £78k and we took in £75k. The point is that I doesn’t take much of a dip in grid sizes to turn a meeting to loss.
Now, I am sure all clubs plan for contingencies and 1-3 poor meetings a year, but if it is every meeting running at a loss the clubs will soon run out of funds.
I Have usually done 5-8 meetings a year, depending on work, or more recently 3-5 races and about 4 of the circuit rallies, and I consider myself an addict, but it is getting to the point where I am wondering if I can justify it even though I still get a buzz from racing for 24th place!!
Of course, there will always be people who can afford to race if they want, but they still need clubs to run races and decent size grids. Clubs racing needs a very broad base to the pyramid to survive and clubs need people like me who are delighted to be taking part and making up the umbers in a 30 car grid.
Another factor is the age demographic of participants. Not long ago I attended the prize giving for a race at Donington. Probably had a grid of about 32 from memory and about 24 turned up to clap the winners; a quick glance round the faces and I guesstimated that I was in the youngest third present…….and I turned 60 this year!!!

[midgetman]

On the point of people buying the cars of their youth - has anyone noticed a weakening in the price of 60s/70s "everyday" classics like MGs? As drivers who relate to those cars get older and fall out the market, is there anyone looking to buy Midgets and Bs? Are the "classic" owners of today forcing up the prices of Metros, MGFs and (please!) ZR 160s?

I've seen a few people on FB commenting on Midget prices softening. Is it general?

This I'm sure aligns with the demise of 60s/70s racing which for years has been the staple of the MGCC.

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[Mike Harte]

From the TV programme "Bangers & Cash", there does seem to be less demand for classic sports cars, especially soft tops, whilst at the same time there is huge appetite for hot Fords like Escorts, Sierras and even Fiestas. There is also demand for many hot hatches, as well.

[Peter Mallett]

I still see the odd advert for a 20k road going MGB and wonder who would pay that much?

Then there are companies like Frontline who have developed a whole new suspension set up for the cars which I believe can cost in the region of £6k.

Escorts and to a lesser extent, Capris, never really stopped being developed because of their competition capabilities. And of course now, for substantial wads of cash, you can buy a fully built new Mk1 or Mk 2 Escort with a modern engine, five or six speed gearbox and revised suspension etc.

I mentioned the cars and coffee scene a while ago where, in my experience, there are more modern cars than classics. But even those moderns are modified. There's one chap I see occasionally who has an ordinary Audi saloon about ten years old, which has a stonking V8 engine under the bonnet.

All of which suggests to me that the traditional classic car is going the way of the DoDo and things are moving more to the customising scene. Not sure it will extend to cars such as Jaguars and the like but the bread and butter classics will probably wither on the vine and this is where the clubs need to concentrate their efforts. It's all very well having a "Young MG Owner's Club" or whatever but when all the "young owner" gets is a monthly mag talking about how to keep the car going, they'll soon lose interest. The clubs need to think out of the box and come up with more incentives for the younger members.

Apologies, I appear to have wandered waaay off topic.

[coppice]

Funny things , are single marque car clubs. I gave an after dinner speech at an MG CC dinner a year or two ago and prepared it on the assumption that some, perhaps most car club folk -

- had at least some interest in motor sport
- had interest in or knowledge of other marques as well their favourite
- probably had contempt , or at least showed little interest in the products of the Chinese marque which had bought the marque name in a charity shop near the BWW factory
- were nearly all old farts like me



Wrong , on all counts

[Peter Mallett]

I can accept the Chinese thing since they continued the MGTF theme for a couple of years hence gaining some "authenticity". But your other points I agree with.

At a recent meeting of the coven, I offered to provide two free tickets to Silverstone this weekend, the room fell silent. The only reason I bought an MGB rather than any other similar car, was because of the motorsport side to the MGCC. The current membership as far as I can tell, could care less about it.

[Derwent]

The MGCC have just had their AGM at the very central Didcot. I've not heard yet of any decisions and nothing on their FB page.
I am sure they will be losing hundreds of members, unless we stick in out of loyalty.