New Engine for 2006

[Triple J Motorsport]

Anyone heard any more news?

I was told it would be an all alloy engine that would fit into existing kent and zetec cars and would available as a kit for £3,000 !!

What do you get for £3,000 can't just be the engine surely?!

Tyres? ACB10s or slicks?
Dampers? Free? Or steel bodied?
Brakes? Alloy or Steel?

Bell Cranks?

[Bagodonuts]

Originally Posted by RayFF

Anyone heard any more news?

I was told it would be an all alloy engine that would fit into existing kent and zetec cars and would available as a kit for £3,000 !!

What do you get for £3,000 can't just be the engine surely?!

Tyres? ACB10s or slicks?
Dampers? Free? Or steel bodied?
Brakes? Alloy or Steel?

Bell Cranks?

It will be the new 1600 alloy engine from the fiesta. Why do you think 3,000 quid for a retro fit kit and engine is ridiculous?

I think the fact that people cling to the deceased Kent engine is ridiculous, it was and still is a great engine and formula but the fact is Ford stopped making the engine a long time ago and the Formula has moved on. Speak to Alan from Scholar and see if he can build you a new kent engine, oh no... no parts to do that.

I find it odd that people are now going great lenghts to scrap yards and paying an absurd premium for rubbish parts in an attempt to revive the kent FF's but yet complain about a new solution with readily available parts. Think... you'll be able to retro-fit the engine to old kent chassis and newer zetec chassis, thus being able to boost grids in all FF levels, from your weekend warrior club races to your young aspiring F1 drivers in the National Championship, not to mention actually having parts readily available.

The writing is on the wall, how much longer will people be able to find parts for them? and once the parts aren't available it won't be possible to continue running kent engines and it will cease to exist.

As a racing driver I loved driving 1600 kents as it was the first proper racing car I ever drove, but Ford are trying to provide stability with a cost effective solution as a better more modern formula and you laugh? jokes on you...

[JNWRF01]

John - looking at the aussie website a while ago - it seems they are keeping the same regs (ie same as UK except remote dampers and alloy wheels) and just swapping the motors over. The pics were of a Spectrum with the new engine in it...looked very much like the kent in terms of size etc.

I agree in terms of cost - £3k for a base engine is a lot..if its £3k for the whole thing ready to go (ie ECU, loom, sump etc etc) then I think people would be mad not to switch over. Assuming they are like the current Zetecs (in terms of mileage) then they will pay for themselves after two kent rebuilds.

In terms of tyres - I would have thought keep the current rules. Dampers - most of the zetec dampers are steel bodied anyway - so why not just allow remote resevoirs? Bell cranks - think these have now been converted - so should not be an issue. Brakes - current rules work.

Does anyone know if the BRSCC plan to allow these engines to run alongside the kents in the regional series??

[Mackmot]

Basically they have decided to make Formula Ford a club championship instead of putting it back where it should be. They totally missed the point even after talking to loads of teams.

[Triple J Motorsport]

If the engine "kit" is £3,000 from Ford by the time it's been to the tuners it will be at least £4,000 probably plus vat plus new spiders and some chassis mods and new exhaust. Before you know it your looking at £6,000 and that assumes you don't need alloy wheels and brake calipers new uprights etc.

The point is if Ford want us to change over which they do, they should make the engine price more attractive. If the price was under £3,000 after tuning including vat and the rules were the current FF1600 ones I think quite a few people would switch if they ran club races, which I guess they won't be at first.

I can't see them running a class in current FF1600 as the new motor will be much more powerful and lighter then the Kent. Even if it is restricted like the Zetec plus Ford will want it to be faster.

[foreversideways]

There is obviously an argument for replacing the Kent engine, however most competitors probably do not have even the £3000.00 waiting to be spent. Having said that, if it were to be replaced it would need to be just the engine. ALL OTHER REGS STAY THE SAME. So people right from the owners of 2005 cars to historic FF's could use it. If this is not the case it would kill off the club scene.

[Walshy]

I'm all in favour of the new engine, if it's done right. I agree that the Kent is getting tired and is probably in need of a replacement, but £3k is too much. What of the Formula Renault engine that was exchangable. You blew the engine, took it out and took it to Renault where they exchanged it for a new one for around £900.....

That's the way it should be. And that should be the only change. Same tyres, same regs. If it works, don't try to change it, but I agree the engine could be replaced.

Regarding tuning. I think all the new engines should be sealed at the factory. This would prevent any "hooky" engines being built and regarding tuning, if they are all gonna run an ECU with an injection system, they can all be set to a standard. Everyone has the same then....

I think apart from the initial outlay, it would be a huge benefit to the clubbie with the limited budget. The engine is bound to have a better working life between builds than the Kent as the Zetec has shown and if you just drop it in and take it out without any messing, how easy would that be.

Has anyone seen a blue print for the engine yet?

My only concern is the supposed alloy head. I've heard they aren't the best?

[JNWRF01]

If the whole thing is c.£3000 sat in the back of my car - and youre allowed to race in both the regional ronuds against the kents plus the odd national round against the lunatics...then I will be doing it. I hope they can save money by carrying over some of the parts (alternators, pumps, looms, ecu's etc etc) from the current Zetecs as there are a lot of them out there for very sensible money. Surely Ford can sell these as a sealed ready to run unit?

MackMot - out of interest what do you think will keep the teams involved at National level?

[JNWRF01]

http://www.formulaford.com.au/acroba...t%20launch.pdf

[ff90]

looking at the pictures of the car some new rear body work will also be needed etc, but over a good idea if the price is right.

[Mackmot]

££££££ from ford will keep it going as a national class
It needs a big prise, equal to a budget of about £120
It needs wings, maybe just symetrical cross section for aesthetics, we showed them the Comtec Van Diemen F4 back in 2001 but they said no, that would have killed Renault and we would never have seen BMW
It needs bullsh!t, now that BMW has set the trend there is no going back.

The problem isnt money, its making people want to spend it. There are more people spending £1m+ on houses that ever before yet we are always looking at cutting costs back to nothing. How on earth is a team supposed to survive if we cannot even make wages, never mind profit.

I wish FF could survive, because it encapsulates what I enjoy, the development of car and driver. BMW and Renault dont, they stiffle innovation and are breeding a crop of inadequate drivers.

[Redracer77]

[QUOTE=Mackmot]

The problem isnt money, its making people want to spend it. There are more people spending £1m+ on houses that ever before yet we are always looking at cutting costs back to nothing. How on earth is a team supposed to survive if we cannot even make wages, never mind profit.

QUOTE]

Whats that got to do with anything? It is a much safer bet putting £1m in to property then taking a flier at getting to F1?

At least there is a good chance you will make money on a property.......

At the moment it is a buyers market so unfortunatly teams will not just start making loads of money over night even if Ford do come and back it.

[Triple J Motorsport]

There is a piece in todays Autosport

[MarkG]

I'm puzzled.. someone says the new engine rules will not make money for the teams??? my heart bleeds. And suggesting it should have wings?? FF1600 is basic racing and has been very good for 30 years. Wings on cars spoil racing.

[Walshy]

Didn't Formula Zip have wings.

Unfortunately, if your chasing a racing career, then you have to go for what the sponsors want and as an overall package, the BMW's look the place to be. It looks the part, sounds the part and the corporate side is right. It doesn't matter these days that the Formula Ford is a better training ground for young drivers, it's what the sponsors want.

That said, I wonder if the BMW's will still be around in 5 years time???

With all the talk of a split from Williams for next year, there could be a move for BMW to come out of Formula 1 and that tends to impact on the whole Motorsport programme of a company.

The one thing that is and will always be safe with the Formula Fords is that you can race them.

To name a few: Formula Vauxhall/Vauxhall Lotus/Formula Zip/Formula Renault 1700

Keep the regs the same. Don't change anything. It works and has worked for the last 40 years. I would like the new engines though. And even if they don't take off on a National level, give the retro fit engines tothe clubbies........

[MarkG]

Walshy, I couldn't agree more. Maybe I look back fondly coz of my age, but I think the best days were when we had FF1600 - FF2000 - F3 as the progesssion path, and of these 3, FF1600 & FF2000 were by far the best racing. In my view racing cars today are too much technology, but I know that I'll just have to put up with that. Popularity of historic and classical racing must indicate something. I've gone off topic here, so to get back to the point.. it's a good move to change the FF1600 engines.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by Walshy

Didn't Formula Zip have wings.

Keep the regs the same. Don't change anything. It works and has worked for the last 40 years. I would like the new engines though. And even if they don't take off on a National level, give the retro fit engines tothe clubbies........

I hope this happens too if the price is right and the remainder of the rules are FF1600 but I think Ford will simply swap the zetec engine for the duratec so will be FFZetec rules. But I guess we'll find out soon.

[ACE Motorsport]

I know a company that sells new ready to go, Formula Ford, Kent engines.
They are called FFeniX, pronounced phoenix, Formula Ford Xflow.
These engines are built to conform to the regs and come dry sumped, with an oil pump, an electronic distributor of your choice, gas flowed head, new bore liners and pistons, chrome rocker cover (filler blanked off), balanced internals, carburetor and a dyno sheet of the engines performance. The engine will even be delivered to you home in the UK, on its own little engine stand.
This is just what the Formula Ford racers need, a ready to race, competitive engine.
I believe these engines will fit every formula ford car from the mid 1960s to the Zetec’s.
Well, that’s my sales pitch over, anyone interested in one of these new engines, please drop me a PM.

[Svend]

So it's most likely that also the 1800 Zetec-engines in the national championships will be replaced bij the 1600 Duratecs? What does that imply for horsepower figures.. 130hp versus some 95hp? Makes it even more difficult to sell it to sponsors when compared to for example FRenault.

[Matt22]

By the way, the Exhaust and inlet are on the wrong side, are they not?

[Triple J Motorsport]

I don't think power will be a problem don't forget the FFzetec run with air restrictors. The FF1600 produces 110bhp and the all Alloy Duratec will be mucher lighter.

[Andrew Kitson]

[QUOTE=MarkG]Maybe I look back fondly coz of my age, but I think the best days were when we had FF1600 - FF2000 - F3 as the progesssion path, and of these 3, FF1600 & FF2000 were by far the best racing. QUOTE]
Out of interest, classic FF2000 is booming too. 31 cars out at Brands over the weekend, 17 of those were Van Diemen RF82's! Same model as Senna drove back in 1982.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by Matt22

By the way, the Exhaust and inlet are on the wrong side, are they not?

That's right look at the inlet manifold in web link jeremy posted, as someone else said rear bodywork may need changing

[JNWRF01]

Thinking about conversion costs: Exhaust £500, rear body £300, Sump £400, Pi Bits £250, Plus Engine (Guess £1000+) Loom (Guess £500+) ECU (£500+ Guess)..plus water systems, looms etc etc....I can't see it being less than £4000 to convert (obv plus brakes, dampers etc for us Zetec boys)...Looking a little toppy unless Ford help out..

[mattray]

Instead of going to PI for the bits you could save 50% and buy bits from DataTech

Matt