Was I hearing wrong or......

camcartfan · 19 Apr 2004, 16:04 (Ref:944315)

Was I hearing wrong, or were some of the cars using traction control? I was sitting in turn 1 and heard it several times. Some of the other fans around me mentioned it as well. Anyone else at Long Beach hear the same thing?

Mags · 19 Apr 2004, 16:59 (Ref:944385)

Quote:

Originally posted by camcartfan
Was I hearing wrong, or were some of the cars using traction control? I was sitting in turn 1 and heard it several times. Some of the other fans around me mentioned it as well. Anyone else at Long Beach hear the same thing?

I did INDEED!! But I didn't think about it until you mentioned it now. I'll get Liz to ask Seb when she interviews him later this week.

gi_gav · 19 Apr 2004, 17:22 (Ref:944408)

I remember hearing about this a while ago, and i think it's to do with the turbo configuration for street circuits - the rate that the wastegate (i think) operates at is so quick that it sounds like TC.

I await someone more technically-minded to correct me!

Phoenix1 · 19 Apr 2004, 17:26 (Ref:944415)

On the commentry it said they were not but I would think at least if one is they all will be!

camcartfan · 19 Apr 2004, 18:01 (Ref:944490)

Thanks Mags.

Mags · 19 Apr 2004, 18:10 (Ref:944504)

Quote:

Originally posted by camcartfan
Thanks Mags.

No problem!

jjspierx · 19 Apr 2004, 18:12 (Ref:944506)

No they aren't. The the engines and ECU's are all identical and prepared by Ford. The teams aren't allowed to make changes to the ECU's and they are examind after the races as far as I know.

camcartfan · 19 Apr 2004, 18:21 (Ref:944522)

I heard once that the TC on F1 cars can be hidden and are hard to detect? Possible on Champ Cars? CC TC is heard, where I don't think F1 TC can be heard...

Mags · 19 Apr 2004, 18:33 (Ref:944545)

And then there was Tracy saying last year they had been running it for 10 YEARS and never admitting it.

PaulSands · 19 Apr 2004, 19:11 (Ref:944587)

Isn't the engine situation in Champ Cars somewhat different from F1? Don't Cosworth maintain them all em masse or is it down to the individual teams? Either way if Cosworth were to take an engine back that had been tampered with I would imagine it would be pretty evident

Amar7605 · 19 Apr 2004, 19:45 (Ref:944616)

Cosworth leases the engines to the teams. I think that after every couple of races the teams get new ones, or something like that. But the teams themselves do all of the maintainence and buys the parts that are needed.

KC · 19 Apr 2004, 20:02 (Ref:944628)

What wopuld Ford gain by providing some teams with traction control and some without? I imagine what was heard was the engine hitting the soft rpm limiter exitting corners which is how most traction control systems worked.

Mags · 19 Apr 2004, 20:20 (Ref:944658)

Quote:

Originally posted by KC
What wopuld Ford gain by providing some teams with traction control and some without? I imagine what was heard was the engine hitting the soft rpm limiter exitting corners which is how most traction control systems worked.

No, it was that distinct "popping" sound.

macdaddy · 20 Apr 2004, 00:15 (Ref:944864)

Used to hear "shotgun blasts" at most every slow corner at Detroit, I assumed the drivers were playing around with boost levels, and the popoff valves were active.

Muzza · 20 Apr 2004, 00:26 (Ref:944873)

The noises you folks heard were wither the pop-off valves (was it a "tu-sh-tu-sh" noise?) or the rev limiter in the pitlane.

I visited Cosworth a few weeks ago and there is no traction control hardware or software on these engines. Period.

Also, if a team would install (what is theoretically possible) a traction control device by monitoring the differential, for example, Cosworth could catch this by the engine data recording, that is quite sophisticated and has a few tricks to catch these things (I asked this question to Mike Perez).

Finally, Cosworth system of distributing engines is the fairest possible. It is truly a lottery, with engine numbers drawed from a box. This is something that Cosworth is very proud about and it is an unanimity in the pitlane. Not even Bruno complains about it.

Cheers,

Muzza

macdaddy · 20 Apr 2004, 00:57 (Ref:944895)

What was I hearing?
The car would "tromp - on - it" after a slow corner...
And then...
BANG
Really loud. Just like a shotgun.
Heard it alot more during practice than racing, so I summed it up as the popoff valve.

Muzza · 20 Apr 2004, 01:09 (Ref:944904)

Hi, macdaddy,

Was this a few years ago? Pop-off valves used to be less sophisticated and would "go bang" when releasing overpressure, but today that work rather "progressively" - not exactly, but in smaller steps - and make a different sound than they used to.

Muzza

Mags · 20 Apr 2004, 01:18 (Ref:944907)

Quote:

Originally posted by Muzza
The noises you folks heard were wither the pop-off valves (was it a "tu-sh-tu-sh" noise?) or the rev limiter in the pitlane.

I visited Cosworth a few weeks ago and there is no traction control hardware or software on these engines. Period.

Also, if a team would install (what is theoretically possible) a traction control device by monitoring the differential, for example, Cosworth could catch this by the engine data recording, that is quite sophisticated and has a few tricks to catch these things (I asked this question to Mike Perez).

Finally, Cosworth system of distributing engines is the fairest possible. It is truly a lottery, with engine numbers drawed from a box. This is something that Cosworth is very proud about and it is an unanimity in the pitlane. Not even Bruno complains about it.

Cheers,

Muzza

Darling;

I was right at that wicked chicaine (turn um, whatever before the straighaway before pit in?)

I heard it.. I honestly did!!!

Margot

Muzza · 20 Apr 2004, 01:22 (Ref:944909)

Hey, Mags,

I am not disputing that anyone heard anything "banging" (I did it too) - but it was not traction control.

Cheers lady!

Muzza

Mags · 20 Apr 2004, 01:28 (Ref:944914)

Quote:

Originally posted by Muzza
Hey, Mags,

I am not disputing that anyone heard anything "banging" (I did it too) - but it was not traction control.

Cheers lady!

Muzza

ARRRGGHHHHH... I'm a Service Manager...... I KNOW what a Pop-Off valve sound sounds like!!!!

I did hear it. Honestly!!! Not alot, but I DID hear it a few times.

camcartfan · 20 Apr 2004, 01:28 (Ref:944915)

The sound I was talking about was more of a very fast sputtering.

jjspierx · 20 Apr 2004, 03:34 (Ref:944958)

Quote:

Originally posted by Muzza
Finally, Cosworth system of distributing engines is the fairest possible. It is truly a lottery, with engine numbers drawed from a box. This is something that Cosworth is very proud about and it is an unanimity in the pitlane. Not even Bruno complains about it.

Cheers,

Muzza

Hehehe...thats the best thing I've read all day.

macdaddy · 20 Apr 2004, 03:43 (Ref:944961)

Muzza...
"Was it a few years ago?"
Yes. But not that long, really.
But I'm not sure if the valves were electronic or pneumatic at the time.
What's the timeline between Detroit and modern-day popoffs?
BANG !!!
Made you take notice. Like a shotgun, as I say,

Mags · 20 Apr 2004, 04:24 (Ref:944975)

Quote:

Originally posted by jjspierx
Hehehe...thats the best thing I've read all day.

HA HA HA!!

In ALL the years I've been following this series few things stay with me; but Bruno's complaints sure rank up there. I think the guy should open up a winery in California, honestly! He would make a fortune!

Superunknown · 20 Apr 2004, 14:04 (Ref:945541)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mags
Darling;

I was right at that wicked chicaine (turn um, whatever before the straighaway before pit in?)

I heard it.. I honestly did!!!

Margot

I sat near the hairpin on Friday and didn't hear any TC

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