CHARLES ZWOLSMAN-2005 Toyota Atlantic Champion (Spoiler included)

stmookeyj033 · 28 Aug 2005, 17:52 (Ref:1393124)

6th Place was good enough for the Dutchman to win the championship in Montreal by 16 points over Tonis Kasemets. Kasemets finished 2nd to Antoine Bessette who gets his 2nd win for the year. Pole man David Martinez was 3rd with Legge 4th.

Marcel ten Caat · 28 Aug 2005, 18:16 (Ref:1393136)

Well done Charles!

Now hopefully the Champcar test at Sebring goes well and we'll see him racing in Mexico!

Kicking-back · 28 Aug 2005, 18:19 (Ref:1393140)

Frankly, that Charles Zwolsman is champion only goes to show the poor standard of driver in Atlantic this year.

He was decidedly average when he raced in series with depth.

luke · 28 Aug 2005, 19:05 (Ref:1393168)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Frankly, that Charles Zwolsman is champion only goes to show the poor standard of driver in Atlantic this year.

He was decidedly average when he raced in series with depth.

So if they are 'poor' drivers, have you actually seen a race from Formula Atlantic this year?

**FIRE** · 28 Aug 2005, 19:42 (Ref:1393185)

Dutch chap · 28 Aug 2005, 20:00 (Ref:1393201)

Congrats to Charles, but I agree with K-B.

**FIRE** · 28 Aug 2005, 20:03 (Ref:1393205)

To be honost I also think K-B is right, but still it's nice a Dutchman has won the championship.

Dutch chap · 28 Aug 2005, 20:19 (Ref:1393215)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

To be honost I also think K-B is right, but still it's nice a Dutchman has won the championship.

Kicking-back · 29 Aug 2005, 05:15 (Ref:1393443)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

So if they are 'poor' drivers, have you actually seen a race from Formula Atlantic this year?

Yes, I have.

The standard of driver is down on what it was last year and considerably down on what one would find in an equivalent European series.

Snrub · 30 Aug 2005, 21:24 (Ref:1394939)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Frankly, that Charles Zwolsman is champion only goes to show the poor standard of driver in Atlantic this year. He was decidedly average when he raced in series with depth.

As I've said before, a case can be made that mid-high level Formula Atlantics drivers are better than F3000 champs.

In all seriousness, we all know that the quality of the field was down in Atlantics this year, but I certainly would not go so far as to say that Zwolsman stinks and everyone there is garbage. Zwolsman looked pretty handy in a number of races.

Dutch chap · 30 Aug 2005, 22:00 (Ref:1394982)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snrub

As I've said before, a case can be made that mid-high level Formula Atlantics drivers are better than F3000 champs.

In all seriousness, we all know that the quality of the field was down in Atlantics this year, but I certainly would not go so far as to say that Zwolsman stinks and everyone there is garbage. Zwolsman looked pretty handy in a number of races.

Let him race a champcar and he'll prove you wrong. Not that he stinks, but he's just not good enough.

runshaw · 30 Aug 2005, 22:12 (Ref:1394998)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch chap

Let him race a champcar and he'll prove you wrong. Not that he stinks, but he's just not good enough.

Good to see that you support your fellow countryman!

Dutch chap · 30 Aug 2005, 22:24 (Ref:1395003)

Quote:

Originally Posted by runshaw

Good to see that you support your fellow countryman!

I'm not biased as a lot of people on these fora are. Zwolsman is a fine driver and of course, as a fellow Dutchman, I like to see him winning a prestigious championship. But let's be honest. The overall level was very low this year. In five years time 'nobody' wil remember how he got his title, but at this moment we see he was extremely lucky to not have any real competition. If he's wise he now turns to GT racing or something like that, because going up the ladder in champcars will turn out to be an embarresement.

runshaw · 30 Aug 2005, 22:29 (Ref:1395012)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch chap

If he's wise he now turns to GT racing or something like that, because going up the ladder in champcars will turn out to be an embarresement.

Yes, although he has always done single-seaters so I doubt he would go GT racing.

Dutch chap · 30 Aug 2005, 22:40 (Ref:1395020)

Edit: This post is in response to the previous, which has been editted. Thus, the fluidity of the thread might be lost a little...

IRL is a form of motorsport that is not much appriciated where I live...
I mentioned GT racing because I think Charles has reached his peak (gone over it, actually) in single seaters and now it's time for cashing. I expect he can get a fair contract and start earning some money after winning this title. It's time for common sense now and I hope he realises that he's just not up to it, when it comes to the next step in single seaters. Time to collect some money!

BSchneiderFan · 30 Aug 2005, 23:03 (Ref:1395027)

The title of this thread contains one of the most ineffective warnings I've ever seen.

Dutch chap · 30 Aug 2005, 23:04 (Ref:1395029)

OK, macdaddy, I understand why you intervened. I'm not fluent in English but, as you, I had the same feeling about the remarks I read. It is such a shame that on this board discussions to often tend to go towards the old, well known, issues. I'll try to rephrase it: I don't think that Charles is (or will ever be) ready to compete in IRL or Champcars. Racing a single seater on ovals on high speed requires a specific talent, racing them on a road course requires another. In both cases Charles would fail. (Phew, come on boys, get over it

)

Dutch chap · 30 Aug 2005, 23:09 (Ref:1395033)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

The title of this thread contains one of the most ineffective warnings I've ever seen.

Thanks for mentioning that. Since I'm not a native English speaker I actually don't understand what is meant here. Can you please use other words to explain to me what this (spoiler included) means?

macdaddy · 31 Aug 2005, 00:04 (Ref:1395060)

Dutch chap...

Intervention was minor, nothing to be worried about. One sentence was removed. At least I'm glad you understand.

Also, the term "spoiler" is used as a warning. If a thread title contains that word, then it's safe to assume that race results will be given somewhere within. In other words, if you haven't seen the race yet and plan to in the near future, don't read the thread or else it will ruin it for you. It's a common courtesy and something that we try to encourage our members to do.

Tenoch · 31 Aug 2005, 01:07 (Ref:1395080)

back on track with my cable out and this drought of races, i have been watching the old archives from way back in 2003, and if the argument that charles won his champinship more because of a weaken field instead of talent the same can be said about PT when he won his championship in 2003 in an extremely weaken field with more than half rookies lots of inferior of equipment (the reynards).

Rime · 7 Sep 2005, 16:15 (Ref:1401500)

I don't agree with my fellow dutchman about the skills of Charles Zwolsman. Don't forget he would be a European Formula Renault champion if it was not for some guy called Felipe Massa who ran him of the road and took the title...

I do think he could surprise a few people here if het gets the chance to drive a ChampCar.

**FIRE** · 7 Sep 2005, 17:42 (Ref:1401575)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rime

I don't agree with my fellow dutchman about the skills of Charles Zwolsman. Don't forget he would be a European Formula Renault champion if it was not for some guy called Felipe Massa who ran him of the road and took the title...

I do think he could surprise a few people here if het gets the chance to drive a ChampCar.

I have to admit I was forgotten that 2nd place.

jondownunder · 7 Sep 2005, 23:26 (Ref:1401818)

I'd forgotten about that too.

He certainly had two poor Euro F3 seasons, but looking at it...

In 2003 his teammates at Kolles, Jan Heylen and replacement Jamie Green, fared little better, and were both consistently outqualified (in every race but 1) by Zwolsman. Then again, his 2004 season at Manor with Lewis Hamilton was less excusable...

I don't think anyone can realistically claim Atlantics this year compared in driver strength even closely to similar European series; that's not Eurocentric bias, it's just logic.

jondownunder · 7 Sep 2005, 23:31 (Ref:1401821)

Oh, and in his part-season of 2002 (German F3) he somehow qualified on pole for his first F3 race, before descending into mediocrity compared to Kolles teammate Joao Paulo de Oliveira.

Rime · 8 Sep 2005, 19:48 (Ref:1402257)

The problem in the F3 Euroseries is that there are many different engines, chassis and teams. For example ASM is about a second faster than every other team so it´s hard to compare drivers in this championship.

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