Prost: Senna would have beaten record

[paulzinho]

I just read on autosport.com that Prost believed that Senna would be the holder of the greatest number of wins. He also says that TGF has had an easier run to his number of wins with less competitive fields. He doesn't detract from TGFs achievement though and says that he is happy that a driver like TGF has taken the record.

[I Ate Yoko Ono]

Prost is absolutely right. Sena could have easily reached 70-80 wins as he was at Williams at the time. And every win for him would have been one less for TGF.

Perhaps TGF would only have had one or at the most two WDCs and be on about 20 victories even now. Who knows?

The other thing Prost is right about is the level of competition. In the 80s/early 90s you had Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet, earlier on there was Reutemann, Pironi, Villeneuve (G of course) and others. TGF has never had maningful competition on this level.

The lack of competition is a factor that has exagerrated the achievements and greatness of TGF.

[Jeanburrasca81]

I totally agree with Alain.

He and Senna had harder opponents to beat, in first place each other.
I am sure that TGF is one of the best drivers ever, but his stats fool a little because of the circumstances.

Best regards,

Julian

[paulzinho]

Someone who makes sense despite the name...(what is that all about)?

[facco]

Originally posted by I Ate Yoko Ono
Prost is absolutely right. Sena could have easily reached 70-80 wins as he was at Williams at the time. And every win for him would have been one less for TGF.

Perhaps TGF would only have had one or at the most two WDCs and be on about 20 victories even now. Who knows?

The other thing Prost is right about is the level of competition. In the 80s/early 90s you had Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet, earlier on there was Reutemann, Pironi, Villeneuve (G of course) and others. TGF has never had maningful competition on this level.

The lack of competition is a factor that has exagerrated the achievements and greatness of TGF.

I8YO: Senna was simply amazing... and He still owns the pole's record.
Alain Prost is completely Right. If Senna could keep on racing that 51 gps' record would have been beaten a long time ago...
I agree... TGF lacks of a fair competition and appears greater than he is.

[AGGY]

Originally posted by facco


I8YO: Senna was simply amazing... and He still owns the pole's record.
Alain Prost is completely Right. If Senna could keep on racing that 51 gps' record would have been beaten a long time ago...
I agree... TGF lacks of a fair competition and appears greater than he is.

I think Senna scored 44 poles in a four year span 88-91,well done Ron and Honda.

[Raven]

I've wondered when Senna would've retired. I'm guessing at the end of 96 or 7. Probably with 70ish wins, 100 poles, 5/6 WDCs.

[f1manoz]

Finally someone in the spotlight has had the guts to say this.

Prost certainly raced in some of the most competitive fields ever. Drivers like Reutemann, Jones, Laffite, Gilles, Arnoux, Jabouille, Rosberg, Senna, Berger, Mansell, Alboreto, Piquet, Watson, Lauda, Tambay...... and Senna also raced in fields that were not dominated by only 3 or 4 drivers a season, or just one or two cars (1988 aside).

The only difference is that TGF hasn't always had the best car available. But those who say he's never had the best car are delusional.

What would Senna have ended up with? Well, say on average he got 10 poles a season, 6 wins a season and he retired around 1996, he would have had around 95 poles and 70 wins plus at least another 2 WDC.

[Dino IV]

Prost also brings forward that it's more easy to build stats up like that as the car's reliabilities have been improved a great deal over the past two decades. Which is quite a valid point. On top of that we've had a very stable set of regulations engine wise for the past decade. Compare that to the eighties mayhem where stability was only something to be dreamt of.

[paulzinho]

WDCs in 94 (Hill was within a point and even TGF said that Senna would have won that year), 95, 96, 97 then I think he would have retired as Williams lost Renault engines. He would have been 37 aswell.


As for poles I think just about all of them during 96 and 97, the 94 williams was unstable to start off with and it improved after his death, 100 poles would have been easy.

As for wins well it depends how many tou thought he could win out of about 60. 75 total wins maybe?

As for always having the best car, I've read in a few books that the 91 Williams was better than the Mclaren but was unreliable and didn't have Senna!!

1988 he had one of the all time greats as his team mate and won, something TGF has never had and probably never will.

[AGGY]

Originally posted by Dino IV
Prost also brings forward that it's more easy to build stats up like that as the car's reliabilities have been improved a great deal over the past two decades. Which is quite a valid point. On top of that we've had a very stable set of regulations engine wise for the past decade. Compare that to the eighties mayhem where stability was only something to be dreamt of.

I guess it makes it hard to compare era`s,as looking at Fangio`s time might reveal a dominant car,but as we can`t easily compare,we`ll have to settle with he`s the best since 94.

[GanjaGrizz]

Senna had more competition then Schumi did throughout his career. and so did Prost for that matter. Fighting with Mansell, Senna, Prost.
Prost's 51 wins against Senna and Mansell is more impressive then wins against Mika and David. Schumi only had 1 true fight and that was with Jacques in 97 and we all know how Schumi handeled that one...You might say he had fights with Mika, but dont you think racing against Senna or Mansell was harder? I would rather race against Mika and David then Senna or Mansell, thats for sure..lol
Did Senna and Prost have all of the advantages that Schumi has...NO.
Like they say Schumi has the record but with a big asterix beside his name.
Schumi in 1994 had a good fight with Damon Hill but during the last race where everything counted he intentionally hit him. In 1997 again he had a good fight with Jacques but again he tried to hit him.
So when Schumi did have competition , well we know how he handels it.

This is just my opinion and is not in anyway Schumi bashing. It's just the facts...lol

[Bononi]

Senna was disturbed with TGF's performances with Benetton. He had fought to get the best car on the grid, with the best engine. He could not understand why Benetton was so good, and started pushing the team, specially about the tyres (there was a meeting between him, Frank and the tyres engineers). Senna made up his mind to start catching TGF in the european leg of the season. And he said that Imola was place to start it, or he would never make it...

This story still amazes me, as a terrifying example how things can go wrong and you get into a point of no return.

[paulzinho]

How did you react when you found out he'd been killed?

Its the only time i've cried in sport and that eent still upsets me today...

[kuchi]

Off course Senna would have beaten the wins record, I think at this time the record could've been like 70 or 80 wins. Not even TGF competing agains a field full of arrows could come close to that point. But the truth is Ayrton is gone, but he will remain in our hearts.

[jiggly_puff]

i think the key to this post is the words 'WOULD OF' there is no way of knowing for sure and there never will be - but on his repuatation and ability - he MAY have

[paulzinho]

Yes but you can't deny that the field of the last 6/7 years is many times weaker than the field of the 80s and early 90s...

Look at the greatest of all time poll and compare the number of drivers from then and now...

[Red]

Originally posted by paulzinho
...you can't deny that the field of the last 6/7 years is many times weaker than the field of the 80s and early 90s...

Yes I can. To say that the current field is weak (many times weaker...) is insulting. How exactly do you measure the weakness? Weaker than what? It’s interesting that every two weeks a “Greatest driver of all times” thread appears and usually the general opinion (after 200+ posts) is that it’s impossible to say who is the greatest. Yet we can say who is weaker... By the way, you were kidding about the polls, right? For example if you ask me for the 25 greatest drivers of all times I can nominate the current field plus Gene, Mazzacane and Yoong and please prove me wrong.

"Lack of competition"??? The fact that one race out of three (average for the last 10 years, we don’t want to count... say only last two seasons do we?) is won by the same guy whereas in the ‘80s everybody had his fair chance means nothing. (Which reminds me, what’s your opinion about 1988 season?)

Now, what Prost said is very sensible. Don’t you think that in 4-8 seasons Senna could win at least 10 races?

[Jeanburrasca81]

Originally posted by paulzinho
How did you react when you found out he'd been killed?

Its the only time i've cried in sport and that eent still upsets me today...

I cried like a Baby...and still now its hard for me to see the pix and videotapes. The happening is in my brain forever.

Best regards,

Julian

[AGGY]

Originally posted by Red
Yes I can. To say that the current field is weak (many times weaker...) is insulting. How exactly do you measure the weakness? Weaker than what? It’s interesting that every two weeks a “Greatest driver of all times” thread appears and usually the general opinion (after 200+ posts) is that it’s impossible to say who is the greatest. Yet we can say who is weaker... By the way, you were kidding about the polls, right? For example if you ask me for the 25 greatest drivers of all times I can nominate the current field plus Gene, Mazzacane and Yoong and please prove me wrong.

"Lack of competition"??? The fact that one race out of three (average for the last 10 years, we don’t want to count... say only last two seasons do we?) is won by the same guy whereas in the ‘80s everybody had his fair chance means nothing. (Which reminds me, what’s your opinion about 1988 season?)

Now, what Prost said is very sensible. Don’t you think that in 4-8 seasons Senna could win at least 10 races?

Excellent post Red...it would be interesting to look at all the qualifing margins,and race winning times of Senna`s..i suspect you will notice a curious set of numbers....Senna was a great,no-one disputes that,but what is in dispute is the "Method of Measuring" greatness,and untill we can agree upon that,we are at a stalemate.

[AGGY]

Originally posted by GanjaGrizz
Schumi in 1994 had a good fight with Damon Hill but during the last race where everything counted he intentionally hit him. In 1997 again he had a good fight with Jacques but again he tried to hit him.
So when Schumi did have competition , well we know how he handels it.

This is just my opinion and is not in anyway Schumi bashing. It's just the facts...lol

94 was a racing incident...and thank christ your not going to bash Schumacher