Expanding DTM??

[kmchow]

Hearing about a invitational (non championship??) race in Shanghai was one thing. Now it seems www.dtm.com has expanded to include a chinese version of their website. That is just amazing. Does the DTM seem intent on pushing for China to become their 3rd fanbase? That seems the case?

It's too bad the DTM won't have a spare car to let a Chinese driver take the seat? There Charles Kwan but he's from Hong Kong, which is still part of China??

Does anyone know if the cars will be running any special paint/sponsor scheme??

[Kicking-back]

I think the plan will be to get Chinese viewers interested in the series, in much the same way there's a big Far-East following of Manchester United.

It would be a mistake for the DTM to move away from its core as a German-based series.

The lessons are there from the collapse of the ITC.

[kmchow]

I wonder if the DTM can capture enough chinese media coverage/fanbase if they make just 1 invitational race to Shanghai every year? Definitely, the cars are recognizeable. Beats the V8 supercars for recognizability.

[Cryos]

I would think they will get an massive media coverage, as we all know the cars i think are one of the main appeals (for me anyway) the only other championship running simular looking cars is the JGTC so i think the uniqueness of the european manufactuers may attract alot of intrest..

[Jaxs]

With the relaxation of the controls within the PRC, the major companies are seeking to gain a footing into such a huge and un exploited market place.
The newly built Beijing is a clear example of the western influence, the F1 circuit and the associated business is a clear indication of the need to 'market' products in the PRC

The 'West' brand has tied up a deal with the Chinese company 'Yuxi Hongta' to maket the cigarettes in China

Chinese race campanies are already in place to encourage local drivers and participate in events under the auspices of the FIA and Bernie.

It's logical for DTM to be amongst the first to approach and establish an annual event.

[JAG]

Fine for Audi and Mercedes, but what about Opel who do not sell the Astra and Vectra in China.

The DTM cannot sustain these extravagent trips. It is a manufactuer backed series, with few privateers.

Without manufactuer backing the series cannot survive. With only Mercedes commited to the DTM long term, the series is teetering on the brink of existence.

Opel are likely to leave if results do not improve and their WRC program gets th green light. Meanwhile Audi entered the DTM to promote their cars in Germany not China.

[kmchow]

Originally posted by JAG
Fine for Audi and Mercedes, but what about Opel who do not sell the Astra and Vectra in China.

It turns out Opel is importing the Vectra into China now. How well it will do in the market place is another story.

The DTM cannot sustain these extravagent trips. It is a manufactuer backed series, with few privateers.

Though I agree, it would be nice to have a strong privateer competition. Perhaps the 3 automakers should consider selling their older cars for very dirt cheap to encourage privateers to race. Perhaps reaching out to all those old V8Star teams??

Meanwhile Audi entered the DTM to promote their cars in Germany not China.

OTOH, Audis, especially the A6, are very popular in China. OTOH, I guess you can argue if they're so popular, then you don't need to promote it? Audi/MB does have a kit plant in China.

[JMeissner]

Well I don't really understand some of the argument here. China is a huge market, I suspect that Audi, Mercedes and Opel are very keen to show their cars there.

[JAG]

But the problem is the DTM is a national series, with national budgets. When you go international, as the ITC found, budgets increase hugely and eventually some manfactuers will pull out.

You have to understand Audi will be building a new sportscar that will race at Le Mans, in the LMES and in the ALMS in the US. This will be a big budget operation.

Likewise Opel are looking at entering the WRC, which will have a huge budget.

These two programs will satisfy the manufactuers international marketing needs, including in the far east.

Only Mercedes is prepared to spend virtually unlimited amounts for what amounts to a glorified national series.

You would have thought with the new 'budget' cars and experience from the ITC, the DTM organisors would limit themselves to Germany and 2 or 3 European events.

[JMeissner]

Yes, but one race in Shanghai isn't a complete ITC.

[Kicking-back]

The Shanghai race is being paid for by the Chinese organisers, as I recall.

As long as it doesn't lead to the championship losing its German base, then one "invitation trip" is probably OK.

[kmchow]

I wonder if Audi/GM/MB North American Operations would ever bring over (pay for!!) the DTM to come race over here in NA??? Imagine partnering up with F1 or OWRS Long Beach for example!! Or even more dreamy, what about my hometown of Vancouver, BC!!!

[Jaxs]

The opportunity to high light the benifits of saloon car racing, to the worlds largest single market..... at the invitation of the Chinese...... I cannot see anyone in their right mind refusing.... and the possible yearly event.. with the introduction of a national championship using the same brand of cars......... with local drivers...... too good to be true... a market man's dream...... The advertising alone would justify the costs.

[OVERSTEER]

It seems strange that the Manufacturers are willing to travel to the other side of the world for a Non-Championship race, but travelling over the North Sea to Donington for a Championship race seems like too much effort, could it be that the fat cats involved in the Championship are getting bags and bags of money to go to China, it's a sad situation when it comes to that!

[Asa]

The DTM are enjoying an all paid for trip by the Shanghai government to go there to race.

Everybody is going to China to exploit this massive market, but I think they are missing the point. China is building up its own racing series and this should be what they support, rather than flying their national series thousands of miles to China to do just 1 race per year.

I don't see Aussie V8 or DTM going to the USA or Japan to market their series. Because NASCAR and JGTC are very strong. So I don't think any national series should go to China. All these manufacturers should be getting behind a Chinese series.

For the record, the DTM, JGTC, Aussie V8, FIA GT, WTCC and the World Series by Nissan all plan to have races in China in 2004 and 2005. All of them going to China without ANY local drivers to attract the fans' interest.

Imagine Mercedes, Audi, Opel, Ford, BMW, Alfa Romeo, SEAT, Peugeot, Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Renault get behind a Chinese series with a mix of international and local drivers, that would be so much better. They should stop wasting their marketing money.

[kmchow]

Originally posted by Asa
All these manufacturers should be getting behind a Chinese series.

A Chinese S2000 based series? They already run the S2000 rules for the Asian based series.

All of them going to China without ANY local drivers to attract the fans' interest.

They could easily bring back Charles Kwan. He's racing part time in the JGTC series. He's a pretty successful touring car driver.

They should stop wasting their marketing money.

You can't really say they're wasting they're money since Opel/MB/Audi both do a lot of business in China.

[Asa]

No. There is a China Circuit Championship for 'Made in China' touring cars. They have a 1600cc category and a 2000cc category. The manufacturers should be getting behind this than bringing their DTM, Aussie V8 or whatever over.

Charles Kwan is not racing in JGTC anymore. This year he is doing the Porsche Carrera Cup Asia only.

[Jaxs]

Ah so....... China is the largest single market on this planet that is almost virginal. The Manufacturers, Sony Ericsson for example, ( I know it's not cars) are opening a new plant to ensure that a Chinese made phone is available. To become high visibility with saloon cars that bear a marked resemblance to the road version has got to be a priority before other manufacturers leap in. The association with the leading German car makers ( albeit without BMW) is a logical and a commercialy sound investment. Again,the investment by Audi/VW in the newly opened european markets is a shining example.
(http://www.skoda-auto.com/global)
The cost of labour within the PRC will be a deciding factor and could easily dictate the opening of car assembly plants.

Don't worry about the DTM.. that's just the acorn.

[kmchow]

Originally posted by Asa
No. There is a China Circuit Championship for 'Made in China' touring cars. They have a 1600cc category and a 2000cc category. .

Yeah, it makes more sense since S2000 cars are more plentiful globally speaking!

The manufacturers should be getting behind this than bringing their DTM, Aussie V8 or whatever over.

A totally crazy and implausible idea would be if the DTM created a separate German and Chinese championship. All the older DTM cars would go to the Chinese series. The Vectra/C Class/A4 are now sold in China. Chinese made C Class are scheduled to be built in '06 possibly? I'm not sure if there is a A4 plant in China. The Vectra is imported.

[champcarman]

I think Tony Cochrane (the V8 Supercar supremeo) would be extremely green with envy of the DTM Shanhai street race. Supposedly tomorrow he will announce the 2005 V8 Supercar chinese race. However, Asa, there is one Series visiting China this year which is keen to embrace Chinese participation. That is the Australian F4000 Championship which has a second series this year with two Rounds in Asia. Check out their website at F4000.com.

[Asa]

Thanks for the info on F4000, champcarman. It is quite interesting.

Anyway, there is already plans afoot to have a new touring car series in China. It would be run in a similar way to the SCV8 to allow maximum manufacturer involvement. But as far as I know things are still very sketchy.

[kmchow]

Originally posted by Asa
Anyway, there is already plans afoot to have a new touring car series in China. It would be run in a similar way to the SCV8 to allow maximum manufacturer involvement. But as far as I know things are still very sketchy.

It's sad that the organizers can't start China off by solely backing a single series, their ATCS series running s2000 rules. WOuldn't it be cool if S2000 took over China the way Nascar has in the US?

[Asa]

kmchow, I don't see your point at all. ATCS is an international series, whereas this new China series is a national series. It is like the ETCC and the BTCC.

China is big enough to support its own series. It is as big an auto market as Britain, Japan or Germany. If Britain can have its own BTCC, Japan the JGTC and Germany the DTM, I don't see why China should get behind an international series and not start its own.

S2000 can and is still coming into China as ATCS is coming to China. Same way the ETCC also visits Britian and Germany.

BTW, I suspect you are thinking that the ATCS belongs to China. It is not. It belongs to a company called Motorsport Asia in Malaysia.

[Jaxs]

The coverage for the Shanghai race was very good, making the front page of the 'Shanghai Daily' newspaper.

[100%hondafan]

ok any 1 got any pics fo the atcs series ?