Dave Coyne v John Pratt

**chunterer** · 19 Apr 2006, 17:21 (Ref:1588900)

Arguably the two main men in FF1600 83/84. Indeed Dave regularly returned to the category in and out or sporadic FF2000/F3/F3000 drives

Dave made it a bit further than John who is now an instructor, but both men had the talent to progress more permanently if it wasn't for budget struggles.

In my view there wasn't much between them.

Discuss!

Tim 27 · 19 Apr 2006, 20:58 (Ref:1589111)

I always thought John to be the more naturally talented of the two. I thought it a terrible shame and waste that he didn't go much further up the ladder. Ok, he had his fair share of big shunts, but I remember they were usually on his own due to over exuberence, unlike Dave who was often involved with someone else. I would have put money on John winning the 84 Festival using Patch in his Lola. Glad I didn't...
A recent Motor Sport article on Dave was very good, and opened my eyes to many things that happened during his career that I wouldn't otherwise have known. I think its great he is still involved in the sport at grass roots, driving a Superstox on the ovals.
Is John still instructing at Rockingham?

**chunterer** · 1 May 2006, 17:12 (Ref:1598874)

Pratt had the Lola in the '82/83 Festival didn't he, as he was running a BP backed Reynard in '84. Gerrit Van Kouwen was the chief Lola runner that year IIRC.

I think your summary is pretty good Tim. Dave did of course win the '86 Euro F3 Cup which was only a selected number of races in a Reynard, but there were some good pedallers in that and illustrated what he could do given the equipment.

I have to say when he entered the '91 Brit 3000 a few races in, I thought he would end up challenging Paul Warwick for the title, but Paul's death cast a shadow over the remaining races and Dave's GJ Reynard had a cracked tub or something which restricted his pace later in the season. That was probably his last chance to progress at a higher level.

I think John was instructing for BRDC/Silverstone as well a few years ago but don't know if the Rockingham school is still running?

Tim 27 · 1 May 2006, 20:05 (Ref:1598963)

PHP Code:


			
Pratt had the Lola in '82/83 Festival didn't he, as he was running a BP backed Reynard in '84.

You are indeed correct Chunterer. I can picture that BP backed black Reynard being lifted back to the pits like it was yesterday...
Brain and fingers obviously not connected when I typed 'Lola'.

The cracked tub on the 3000 Reynard was one of the parts from the Motorsport piece I was unaware of.

Tim 27 · 1 May 2006, 21:03 (Ref:1598987)

Apologies for making a hash of Chunterers quote.
Just pulled out the October 05 Motorsport with the Dave Coyne interview.
It says that Dave borrowed Giovanna Amati's new Reynard for the International 3000 test at Brands in 91 and went so quickly that Giovanna demanded her car back demoting Dave to his older domestic car.
It was in this that the throttle stuck open during the race, cracking the tub.
No surprise that the results with this car were not up to much afterwards...

Alan Raine · 2 May 2006, 09:56 (Ref:1599241)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim 27

[PHP]I can picture that BP backed black Reynard being lifted back to the pits like it was yesterday...

What this one?

If I remember rightly it was a pretty classy entry that year - who else was there?

**chunterer** · 2 May 2006, 10:23 (Ref:1599258)

That's the Festival entry I take it Alan, I don't recall that many numbers in the RAC/Esso series that year!!

As for the '84 season the front runners were Pratt, Mark Newby, Felipe Machado & Lindoro Da Silva in Madgwick Reynards, Coyne, Mark Peters & Ruari O Coileain in works Van Diemen's, Van Kouwen in the Lola.

Other's to figure were Alvaro Buzaid, John Brolly & Butcher Booth's, Miles Johnstone and Tim A Jones (Brian Jones' son)

Wasn't a bad season talent wise, Da Silva & Buzaid weren't quite upto Senna standards of a couple of season before but still could've gone a bit further after their sporadic FF2000 drives over the following couple of season.

Alan Raine · 2 May 2006, 10:41 (Ref:1599265)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

That's the Festival entry I take it Alan

Yes, (should have been more specific). Of the others wasn't Jonathon Bancroft fairly quick and some guy called Damon Hill - Don't know what happened to him!!

also Perry McCarthy although I don't think he did the Festival after being "Boothed" at Oulton.

Both John Pratt and Dave Coyne had good set ups running them and perhaps the Reynard was a better car than the 84 VD. It was Coyne's personality that stood out to me. A hard man in and out of the car!

**chunterer** · 2 May 2006, 10:50 (Ref:1599269)

Yeah Pel and Damon were doing the Junior series with Blundell and Bancroft I think?

Of course we mustn't foget Rick Morris and John Village, who along wiith 'Brolly' and 'Butcher' competed in senior FF for years!!

I always used to get the two Booth's muddled up - now which one runs Manor again?

JohnMiller · 2 May 2006, 10:53 (Ref:1599271)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Ruari O Coileain in works Van Diemen

Are you sure that was 1984?

**chunterer** · 2 May 2006, 11:11 (Ref:1599284)

I think I know what you're thinking John

Yes, Ruairi did the '85 Senior campaign in a Duckhams car, but he did the Junior series in '84 as well as some senior events IIRC.

Tim 27 · 2 May 2006, 19:05 (Ref:1599567)

Great picture Alan. What great memories of great racing and some great names.
Two of those memories are from the aforementioned Mr O Coileain nearly running Bert Gachot's head over in Bert's infamous semi shunt in 85.
The other also involved an incident earlier in 85 at Graham Hill bend.
A backmarker had spun his red Quest exiting the corner and had stalled the engine sitting broadside in the track.
Herbert, Hill and a couple of others made it through ok, but Ruari struck it with such force that he ended upside down on fire against the armco on the outside of the track. In the ensuing melee, James King ended up nose first into the barrier at the rear paddock entrance and John Village came to rest in the middle of the track with a broken arm. I had become used to 1600 shunts over the years, but this was huge. Cars and debris scattered over a huge area.
Thankfully Johns arm was the only injury, the RF85s being immensely strong.

Thundersports · 2 May 2006, 20:59 (Ref:1599677)

Dave Coyne went off at Westfield cracking the tub on his Reynard 90D in the 1991 International F3000 race. During testing he posted equal quickest times with Fittipaldi and Zanardi however from memory I think he was in the 90D not Amati's 91D. GJ motorsport were running the car and wanted to give the 91D to Coyne for the race weekend but I think it was then that Amati but her foot down. (which didn't happen very often on the track!)
To this day I am sure had Coyne had the newer car he would have won at Brands and won the 1991 British F3000 crown. However I think Paul Warwick was a superior talent but that's a different thread.

**chunterer** · 3 May 2006, 08:22 (Ref:1599882)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundersports

To this day I am sure had Coyne had the newer car he would have won at Brands and won the 1991 British F3000 crown. However I think Paul Warwick was a superior talent but that's a different thread.

Good point, respect your thoughts.

driftwood · 3 May 2006, 21:18 (Ref:1600332)

I beleive neither of these guys came form "monied" back grounds and where grafters
I remember Dave Coyne 1981 running in both FF1600 and FF2000 championships in UK & europe
I have not looked up the true results in AS yet so i stand to be corrected but DC was leading most of them till mid season and i do recall in the FF2000 series he was in the aged design Delta T81 car and the VD 81 car cam eon mid season to beat all comers but DC also had ££ problems and lost out later in the year

When you also look at his overall career he was up n down with money so he couldnt be racing all the time but he has made as many come backs than the rolling stones and each time gave it his best shot rather than look at it as a free meal ticket to ponce around in a race suit looking cool.
I know a car owner who gave him a run in his sports car thought DC was good enough to run in F1 but he never had the ££ to run in racing consistently
I also knew a guy 25 years ago in karting who knew Coyne from his karting days and he was awesome back then

How many guys do you know that raced Ffords in 81 & can come back 9 years later and win the festival when his peers where in fully paid up race drives from F1 down to BTCC
Sadly after this year he was not active in racing but given the chance im sure would give many a run for their money in the 90`s

Dan Rear · 4 May 2006, 12:06 (Ref:1600617)

I agree drifty, Coyne was excellent, a real charger, and you're spot on re the 81 season. As to Pratt, sorry I never rated him that highly, not in the Premier League of FF drivers in the early 80s. Steady, but not a consistent winner.

Tim 27 · 4 May 2006, 13:37 (Ref:1600671)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

As to Pratt, sorry I never rated him that highly, not in the Premier League of FF drivers in the early 80s. Steady, but not a consistent winner.

Sorry Dan, totally disagree with that statement. Not sure many of the drivers he beat in 1600s would class him as 'steady'!
Chunterer pointed out that he maybe instructing at Silverstone these days. Can anyone confirm this?

**Aysedasi** · 11 May 2006, 20:15 (Ref:1606272)

Great thread guys, I remember these times well too myself. My attention wandered off of FF1600 and onto sportscars around this time and I never caught up again with what these two were up to.

driftwood · 12 May 2006, 08:20 (Ref:1606765)

iF U HAD FOLLOWED SPORTS CARS U WOULD HAVE SEEN COYNE IN SPICE ON BRITISH C2 SERIES IN 1990 WON THE SERIES

JNWRF01 · 2 Jun 2006, 10:16 (Ref:1625313)

John did run the school at Rockingham for a while - when I last saw him was running a personal loan business (if I remember right was in the South West).

Coyne hardly raced sporadically during the 80s - he was a works Swift drive in 89 (alongside Nick Hart, Tim Sudgen etc)... 90 he ran a full seaon in Renault and came back to the works FF1600 squad when Stuart Jackson lost his road license. Whilst he won the final - his fastest lap was something like 18th fastest... I took over the fewtival winning car for the last few races in the winter series - having had my own swift destroyed by Marchant/Edgar in a wheel banging session at Graham hill...

nycuk · 28 Jun 2006, 11:06 (Ref:1643321)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thundersports

Dave Coyne went off at Westfield cracking the tub on his Reynard 90D in the 1991 International F3000 race. During testing he posted equal quickest times with Fittipaldi and Zanardi however from memory I think he was in the 90D not Amati's 91D. GJ motorsport were running the car and wanted to give the 91D to Coyne for the race weekend but I think it was then that Amati but her foot down. (which didn't happen very often on the track!)
To this day I am sure had Coyne had the newer car he would have won at Brands and won the 1991 British F3000 crown. However I think Paul Warwick was a superior talent but that's a different thread.

Remember it well! My dad and I had just arrived at Westfield having been watching at Stirlings when Dave Coyne said hello to the tyre wall. I have a great picture of a severely cheesed of Coyne next to the car - will attach it once I'm permitted to do so.

nycuk · 10 Sep 2007, 00:39 (Ref:2008099)

At last... the picture!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/paul69/...7594181659351/

(if anyone's still intersted!)

Thundersports · 14 Sep 2007, 11:11 (Ref:2012517)

Great pic he is probarely irritated that none of the marshalls smoke as i'm sure he needed one after that! That shunt cracked the tub which is why Dave's British F3000 form dropped (they only found out over winter), it was sad as the car was being run on a shoestring.
Would make a great caption competition.

nycuk · 14 Sep 2007, 18:24 (Ref:2013022)

Thanks Thundersports - glad you liked it. It's a very labourious process scanning all these old shots!

tonful · 14 Sep 2007, 21:32 (Ref:2013167)

From what I remember Dave Coyne wasn't too popular in the Paddock Hill grandstand during his early Festivals, due to his robust driving style.

I was also sitting there the year he won, but this time the whole Grandstand was rooting for him. Hazy memories of it, but I think the young Brazilian hotshot for that year made a mistake in trying to intimidate DC who puleed off a strong arm move to take the lead at paddock.

Didn't Dave Coyne also have a bit F3000 shunt in testing at Silverstone. Brake failure at the original Luffield left right flick (before they really ruined the track).

I think John Pratt was one of those drivers that Brian Jones would have described as 'perenially underfinanced'. I don't have many specific memories of him but seem to remember he was great value to watch when on a charge.

This thread has really taken me back, the early 80's were FF racing at it's best. Anyone want to start on Wood, Wheeler & Walsh, 3 abreast into Woodcote?

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