FF1600 Class Structure?

[mattray]

So do we keep it as it is or do we revert to how it was? reasons please!

bugger I meant the Good old way or the Rubbish new way!
I am sure you knew what I meant!

[Ian Sowman]

Have changed the options for you Matt.

My own view is that it doesn't make the slightest difference.

[mattray]

if you wouldn't mind!

I thank you!

[mattray]

It doesnt until you look at the Photo from Anglesea of the podium in Autosport, if i were a Punter I would be asking "why are there 2 people on 2nd and 3rd spots?? what kind of cars are these? are they 2 seaters??? is one an instructor or a co-driver? did the guy on the top step finish first because he didn't have to carry another driver around??"

[dhart]

couldnt agree more Matt, one class winner in the photo has a garland and trophy.....he was the only class starter!!!

Should be one class with an award to the highest pre 90 finisher, at oulton a qual race and a final depending on entries would be mega,if you dont qual, tough you go home!.

[mattray]

Yup its lost a bit of class, Steve was the only one!

[Ian Sowman]

I would say 1990 would be the wrong split, if you're going to have just one - look at which cars run at the front of Star of the Midlands, for example. But equally a 1987 split works nowhere but in the NW...

[Redracer77]

I am with you dave - all in one race with a qualifying race - would be great

[JohnMiller]

having different splits at different places, like some pre-90 @ Combe, pre-87 NW/SoM does mean that all cars have somewhere to race competitively and keep values levelish for most chassis.

I don't know anyone who thinks the classes this year are good. A good idea but far too many classes...

[diz]

Originally posted by mattray
It doesnt until you look at the Photo from Anglesea of the podium in Autosport, if i were a Punter I would be asking "why are there 2 people on 2nd and 3rd spots?? what kind of cars are these? are they 2 seaters??? is one an instructor or a co-driver? did the guy on the top step finish first because he didn't have to carry another driver around??"

Matt, have I just replied to your dad on another thread about this photo?

[MikeM]

I agree with John on principle and think that the current class splits are about right but -- it's been a bit too easy in the smaller classes, I thought min of three applied for trophies etc?

If people go home too often, they will stop - and this will probably mean new drivers and older cars will be lost. I wouldn't like to see that.

[JohnMiller]

If you had one race (with a pre-whatever award winner) you could have the same number of entries and split qualifying. Top 16, say, go straight to the final and the rest in a heat with some going on to the final.

Same number of entries = same cash for BRSCC.

Heats/final = excitement. Like the 'old days.'

Everyone gets at least the same tracktime. Some get more. (May actually encourage more entries and more cash.) Those who can't test can treat the heat as a 'test' for the final if they wish.

Advantage to those who miss out by finishing too low in the heat at least they get to pack up early to watch or get home in time for Heartbeat...

Who loses in this scenario??

[Ian Sowman]

In theory, other championships that could use the slot on the timetable. Although certain organising clubs seem to be struggling to pad out race meetings on occasion so its not a big issue...

[JohnMiller]

True, but I was thinking more for the North where they have two grids already, and maybe Combe where they probably should have.

[diz]

Originally posted by JohnMiller
If you had one race (with a pre-whatever award winner) you could have the same number of entries and split qualifying. Top 16, say, go straight to the final and the rest in a heat with some going on to the final.

Same number of entries = same cash for BRSCC.

Heats/final = excitement. Like the 'old days.'

Everyone gets at least the same tracktime. Some get more. (May actually encourage more entries and more cash.) Those who can't test can treat the heat as a 'test' for the final if they wish.

Advantage to those who miss out by finishing too low in the heat at least they get to pack up early to watch or get home in time for Heartbeat...

Who loses in this scenario??

I suggested something very similar to this last year and the bruises are only just starting to fade.
Many in the Pre87 class saw it as the beginning of the end of FF1600 as they know it.
Another benefit would have been a full grid qualifier and a full grid final for the marshals and spectators.
There was even some concern that the possibility of getting two races on the day could be a big negative. The cost of having to do extra track time would mean that fewer meetings could be afforded to compensate for additional engine wear, tyre usage etc. and entry levels would fall.
I am expecting at least two ten tenths members will be emailing me very shortly after I press 'submit reply', but I am still totally in favour of qualifying race and a final.

[darcym]

additional engine wear/tyres....rubbish if anything this may actually keep the costs down (possibly) as the money bags will either throw tyres/engine builds at races (so what) or they will realise its not worth it and go with the norm on engines/tyres etc etc.

Not sure the 2 grid thing is the way forward however I don't see the excuses Diz was presented with as a problem. If anything it would redcude costs as you'd get more time in the car, settle into it more and not have to take a day off to go testing.

[dhart]

Diz, i can only think of a couple of pre87 drivers that dont want extra track time, but that shouldnt be an issue as they would be unlikely to get out of the heat.
The majority should be given the chance to compete in a spectacle to be proud of and that gives the championship some credibility, not just 3/4 guys, but a full grid all trying to get better.
If i was starting out now i would love it,trying to qualify from the first race ,just to get in the "final" then trying to move further up the final, and i would get there twice as quick because i would be doing 2 races instead of 1,racing is how you get quicker and the standard(that in the main is VERY poor) would spiral upwards!..........just imagine a full grid in the final and a standard that meant the leaders didnt lap anyone...they would have gone home.
Still have a class structure but only award points from the final. This simple format always worked for the festival, bet it works at Mallory in August too best of luck DALY great idea!

[steve27]

To be fair we now need another choice to vote on.....qualifier & race.....with class structure or qualifier & race.......with no class structure

[diz]

Very well spotted Mr StClair.
At present though - entry level wise - it only affects NW [maybe Combe occasionally]

[dave_fricker]

When can we get rid of the Mutants, thats what I want to know!! Is it perhaps to much of a spanner in the works to think about splitting the classes into competitiveness, rather than age. It's just an idea?? What do people think?

[diz]

FYI Mr Fricker is not a lover of down speccing Zetecs to Kent and insists on referring to such cars as 'Mutants'

[dave_fricker]

Mutants, Mutants, Mutants, Mutants!!

[diz]

Originally posted by dave_fricker
Is it perhaps to much of a spanner in the works to think about splitting the classes into competitiveness, rather than age. It's just an idea?? What do people think?

IMHO The competitiveness of any racing class is mainly human, not mechanical, although a well prepared car is a good start.
Using NW FF1600 as an example.
Some Pre87 drivers can beat most Post86 drivers, whilst some Post86 drivers would struggle in Pre87 races.
So splitting the classes into competitiveness would only work with classes split by driver ability, not car potential.
It would be like a Track Day with slow, medium and fast drivers. So this is a no go scenario.
Also sandbagging would become de rigeur. "Yes I agree I've spent a fortune on my car, it's one of the quickest cars out there, but I consider myself to be a 'slow' driver"
"Oops how did I manage to win that race?"

[darcym]

I thought how it worked at combe (and probably the NW too) of an overall championship which a pre90 championship built in for fun. Regular pre90 cars appeared in the overall championship and got some good results. I saw no problems with that. Looks like Diz is suggesting the same thing.


The sandbagging option Diz suggests is valid although I don't see how you could chance it.eg: Regular Pole 1:00 you decide to sandbag it with ah 1:05 what happens if all the other guys sandbag it too then the quick guys will end up in the middle group so you'll still not walk it as they'll be on race pace from the start.

[diz]

blue nose would probably misunderstand the term sandbagging and just throw it into the sand regularly.
Oh I forgot, he does that now anyway.