Kimi's qualifying dominance over Seb

F1Pete · 26 Nov 2016, 15:50 (Ref:3691151)

Has anyone noticed Kimi's dominance over Vettel in qualifying?? What was the score...13 to 8? I can only imagine Kimi in the Merc. A string of poles, wins and championships.

Akrapovic · 26 Nov 2016, 15:59 (Ref:3691153)

He's qualifying ahead, but still has less points. Qualifying won't win you championships if you drop back in the races.

gert · 26 Nov 2016, 16:48 (Ref:3691173)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Pete

Has anyone noticed Kimi's dominance over Vettel in qualifying?? What was the score...13 to 8? I can only imagine Kimi in the Merc. A string of poles, wins and championships.

11 - 10.
I would could that fairly evenly matched rather than dominance though.

Australia: Vet 3 - Rai 4
Bahrain: Vet 3 - Rai 4
China: Rai 3 - Vet 4
Russia: Vet 2 - Rai 4
Spain: Rai 5 - Vet 6
Monaco: Vet 4 - Rai 6
Canada: Vet 3 - Rai 6
Baku: Vet 4 - Rai 5
Austria: Vet 4 - Rai 6
Silverstone: Rai 5 - Vet 6
Hungary: Vet 5 - Rai 14
Germany: Rai 5 - Vet 6
Belgium: Rai 3 - Vet 4
Monza: Vet 3 - Rai 4
Singapore: Rai 5 - Vet 22
Sepang: Vet 5 - Rai 6
Suzuka: Rai 3 - Vet 4
USA: Rai 5 - Vet 6
Mexico: Rai 6 - Vet 7
Brazil: Rai 3 - Vet 5
Abu Dhabi: Rai 4 - Vet 5

**Aysedasi** · 26 Nov 2016, 17:25 (Ref:3691183)

I saw this thread in the index and I thought, 'I wonder who posted that......?' Then I saw your name Pete.........

Akrapovic · 26 Nov 2016, 17:41 (Ref:3691190)

Vet avg qualifying position is 10th. Kimi avg is 11th.

F1Pete · 26 Nov 2016, 17:56 (Ref:3691193)

13 to 8. I did a quick google search and that was the number that came up. I guess google took note of his dominance in error.

Regardless, Kimi was never known for his qualifying performances ever since he left McLaren. So for Kimi to outqualify Vettel is pretty good for an old man. Not good for the nay sayers right Ayesdasi?

gert · 26 Nov 2016, 18:01 (Ref:3691194)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Pete

13 to 8. I did a quick google search and that was the number that came up.

I think that's wrong. It is 11 to 10, I have the results added to my post above.

Akrapovic · 26 Nov 2016, 18:37 (Ref:3691199)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Pete

13 to 8. I did a quick google search and that was the number that came up. I guess google took note of his dominance in error.

Regardless, Kimi was never known for his qualifying performances ever since he left McLaren. So for Kimi to outqualify Vettel is pretty good for an old man. Not good for the nay sayers right Ayesdasi?

If he's not known for his qualifying then it suggests he is known for his race performances. Given he's behind in points, it doesn't say much for that really.

newlaprecord · 26 Nov 2016, 18:48 (Ref:3691201)

Season cant end soon enough for Seb, thats for sure. He should be running laps around Kimi, and instead he is just about matching him.

If I have to put my money on either, then I would put my last dollar on Seb tho. I noticed a pattern in his career, that hard times make him really strong, when he regroups from those he just comes back unstoppable. I know people tend to rank Alonso and Hamilton higher, but I honestly believe that, when (and if) Seb gets the formula down with Ferrari, he will destroy the field.

ASCII Man · 26 Nov 2016, 20:06 (Ref:3691220)

When did Sebastian have hard times that he came back unstoppable from?

**Aysedasi** · 26 Nov 2016, 20:10 (Ref:3691222)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Pete

13 to 8. I did a quick google search and that was the number that came up. I guess google took note of his dominance in error.

Regardless, Kimi was never known for his qualifying performances ever since he left McLaren. So for Kimi to outqualify Vettel is pretty good for an old man. Not good for the nay sayers right Aysedasi?

He's done a good job this season Pete, I'll grant you that, but then again, Vettel has been a pale shadow....

Quote:

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

I know people tend to rank Alonso and Hamilton higher, but I honestly believe that, when (and if) Seb gets the formula down with Ferrari, he will destroy the field.

Yep, he'll be consistently finishing 2nd behind Max......

newlaprecord · 26 Nov 2016, 21:35 (Ref:3691244)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

When did Sebastian have hard times that he came back unstoppable from?

To say that Seb was having a "hard times" with Webber is putting it mildly. Think 2012, Silverstone ("not bad for a second driver" , ring a bell?) Webber had a 15 point lead over him, and even more importantly , he was on the top of the psychological warfare.... he had the media on his side (eversince his epic Monaco win), he had the numbers on his side, and Vettel looked more and more cornered and fustrated. The rest is history... 3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 3 1 ... finishing 100 points clear on Webber (and bear in mind in this season Ferrari and Mclaren were proper strong too, Webber actually have finished behind both drivers of both of these team). Unstoppable? safe to say.

Hard times hit Vettel again with Riciardo, after 4 titles getting an up and comer beating you, and your team turning their attention (rightly so) on their future star is not an easy pill to swallow. Media didnt help the matter either, playing the old "only won those titles because of the car" record. His reputation was tarnished, he was down but was he out? Hardly, he came back with an epic uplifting season at Ferrari. Put 3 victories and 278 points with a team the almighty Fernando left with zero victories and 161 points. He have also managed to score twice (!) the points than his team-mate Ferrari World Champion...another unstoppable roll coming out of hard times.

Maybe you can see what Im getting at, and lets not forget, nothing says "dont write me off just yet" more than winning last-lap championship titles...twice.

gert · 26 Nov 2016, 22:06 (Ref:3691249)

Quote:

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

Webber had a 15 point lead over him, and even more importantly , he was on the top of the psychological warfare.... he had the media on his side (eversince his epic Monaco win), he had the numbers on his side, and Vettel looked more and more cornered and fustrated.

He had everything on his side, except his team -- and particularly Dr. Marko; and since Marko had (and still has) Horner in his pocket ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

... last-lap championship titles...twice.

Last-lap championship? Last-race championship, OK, but not the last lap unless I'm very much mistaken.

Hamilton/Massa that was a last-lap championship, but Vettel... ?

Beryl · 27 Nov 2016, 01:40 (Ref:3691296)

Quote:

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

Season cant end soon enough for Seb, thats for sure. He should be running laps around Kimi, and instead he is just about matching him.

When both Ferraris have finished this season, the head-to-head has been 9-3 in favour of Vettel. The only three occasions that Kimi has finished ahead of Seb were Singapore (Vettel's car failed in Q1, but he performed strongly to finish a position behind Kimi in the race), Spain (three stop strategy for Vettel was the wrong call in hindsight) and the variable weather British GP.

Vettel's issues this year were first lap incidents and (oddly) qualifying. On the whole, Vettel performed fine in the races (first corner crashes aside) and his race pace was stronger than Kimi's. It's telling that despite Vettel's scruffy and unlucky season and a poor year in qualifying, Seb still leads Kimi in the championship.

F1Pete · 27 Nov 2016, 04:54 (Ref:3691318)

Hmmm so Kimi is having a good year while Vettel is having a bad year? I am sure Vettel has been trying his best and hasn't just been a pale shadow.

Kimi has been voted driver of the race for every race of the season. That says a lot!

Akrapovic · 27 Nov 2016, 09:51 (Ref:3691345)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Pete

Hmmm so Kimi is having a good year while Vettel is having a bad year? I am sure Vettel has been trying his best and hasn't just been a pale shadow.

Kimi has been voted driver of the race for every race of the season. That says a lot!

Vettel must be awesome then. He's having a bad year whilst Kimi is having a good year and he's still beating him on points. Points win prizes!

Even I'd after the final race that swaps, there's been no dominance in the Ferrari camp.

**Aysedasi** · 27 Nov 2016, 18:31 (Ref:3691499)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Pete

Hmmm so Kimi is having a good year while Vettel is having a bad year? I am sure Vettel has been trying his best and hasn't just been a pale shadow.

Kimi has been voted driver of the race for every race of the season. That says a lot!

Er, it says you're a very loyal fan Pete........

S griffin · 27 Nov 2016, 23:54 (Ref:3691588)

Kimi has certainly come good towards the end of the season

newlaprecord · 28 Nov 2016, 16:17 (Ref:3691801)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gert

He had everything on his side, except his team -- and particularly Dr. Marko; and since Marko had (and still has) Horner in his pocket ...

Thanks for pointing that out. It makes zero difference to the fact that Vettel came out of hard-times in an unstoppable fashion. Which was the original point.

**chunterer** · 29 Nov 2016, 22:31 (Ref:3692228)

Quote:

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

Thanks for pointing that out. It makes zero difference to the fact that Vettel came out of hard-times in an unstoppable fashion. Which was the original point.

It makes every difference. In the RB days to have the number 2 competing strongly resulting in management intervention to prevent it upsetting the applecart means the no.1 driver might not be as brilliant as thought.

However I think we will see a much stronger Seb if the Ferrari gets a sniff of regular wins next year. That's when we see ace drivers show their mettle. They find another gear.

BSchneiderFan · 30 Nov 2016, 00:13 (Ref:3692241)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

However I think we will see a much stronger Seb if the Ferrari gets a sniff of regular wins next year. That's when we see ace drivers show their mettle. They find another gear.

Disagree completely. It's in adversity that you see the true mark of a champion. Schumacher in 1996, for example.

newlaprecord · 30 Nov 2016, 13:06 (Ref:3692348)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

It makes every difference. In the RB days to have the number 2 competing strongly resulting in management intervention to prevent it upsetting the applecart means the no.1 driver might not be as brilliant as thought.

However I think we will see a much stronger Seb if the Ferrari gets a sniff of regular wins next year. That's when we see ace drivers show their mettle. They find another gear.

utter rubbish.

Did it ever occure to you that in 2012 Ferrari have won 4, Mclaren won 7 (!) races? (Not to mention 1 by Rosberg and 1 by Maldonado) What does Seb' amazing come-back and even more amazing championship have to do with team-orders when it took beating another 4 drivers?

Jenson Button
Fernando Alonso
Nico Rosberg
Sebastian Vettel
Pastor Maldonado
Mark Webber
Lewis Hamilton
Fernando Alonso
Mark Webber
Fernando Alonso
Lewis Hamilton
Jenson Button
Lewis Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel
Sebastian Vettel
Sebastian Vettel
Sebastian Vettel

How does this look like to you? An epic come-back drive or team politics?
Are there team politics that will make you beat not only your your team-mate but accidentaly another 4 drivers in proper strong Ferraris and Mclarens? If you have this sort of team politics laid out in your mind, I encourage you to put your CV in with one of the teams. You are nothing short of a big-time thinker

What do you think will make you come back from hard-times with a string of 3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 3 1...team politics or your ability of coming out strong from hardship? Also, when you can -quite a few times- beat someone at the Main Team driving the Junior Team's car and also beat him driving for the Main Team by 134 (?!) points a year before (in 2011) how much is it down to team politics to beat him (and accidentaly another 4 winning drivers) again?

The original point was to say, that Seb is more than capable of strong come backs. This point stays.

**chunterer** · 30 Nov 2016, 23:52 (Ref:3692551)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Disagree completely. It's in adversity that you see the true mark of a champion. Schumacher in 1996, for example.

In 1996 we saw a great driver in an average car against two ok drivers in a great car?

A great driver is still largely tied to the abilities of the car and only in 'adverse' conditions do we get to see how good they really are.

**chunterer** · 1 Dec 2016, 00:00 (Ref:3692552)

Quote:

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

utter rubbish.

Did it ever occure to you that in 2012 Ferrari have won 4, Mclaren won 7 (!) races? (Not to mention 1 by Rosberg and 1 by Maldonado) What does Seb' amazing come-back and even more amazing championship have to do with team-orders when it took beating another 4 drivers?

Jenson Button
Fernando Alonso
Nico Rosberg
Sebastian Vettel
Pastor Maldonado
Mark Webber
Lewis Hamilton
Fernando Alonso
Mark Webber
Fernando Alonso
Lewis Hamilton
Jenson Button
Lewis Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel
Sebastian Vettel
Sebastian Vettel
Sebastian Vettel

How does this look like to you? An epic come-back drive or team politics?
Are there team politics that will make you beat not only your your team-mate but accidentaly another 4 drivers in proper strong Ferraris and Mclarens? If you have this sort of team politics laid out in your mind, I encourage you to put your CV in with one of the teams. You are nothing short of a big-time thinker

What do you think will make you come back from hard-times with a string of 3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 3 1...team politics or your ability of coming out strong from hardship? Also, when you can -quite a few times- beat someone at the Main Team driving the Junior Team's car and also beat him driving for the Main Team by 134 (?!) points a year before (in 2011) how much is it down to team politics to beat him (and accidentaly another 4 winning drivers) again?

The original point was to say, that Seb is more than capable of strong come backs. This point stays.

4 titles in a row says to me the Red Bull was a superior car just like the 1988 McLaren, 1992/93 Williams, 96/97 Williams, 98/99 Mclaren and those bloody Ferraris in the 00's.

In at least 2 of the seasons you mention he made heavy weather of it. How on earth did Alonso run him that close in 2012? Are you going to tell me Ferrari had a comparable car?

2010. Fortunate in my book made the most of strategy cick ups at last race and i still bet Seb can't believe he won that.

2011 and 13 were dominant. He didn't have to come back from anything?

**Aysedasi** · 1 Dec 2016, 19:08 (Ref:3692769)

I thought this thread was about Seb and Kimi........?

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