The New Formula Ford "united" Championships

[darcym]

Ok - I have read about 2 races and been involved in one myself, I've seen a lot of information and comments made about the racing, so I thought I'd start this thread, but in my own comments and opinions, and hear the views of others. It will be interesting to see how my own/other peoples views change. This is not supposed to be an for or against thread just what I think and what others thing.


I'm actually talking about the new united front on the Formula ford championship and the king of Kents championship that is being run this year - and very professionally I might add. After participating in a race on Saturday I must say at the moment I am against the current new format (still willing to give it time which is why I said at the moment).

I really like the idea of all the championships playing to the same set of rules - I think thats great, however I think the new "national" classes and points system really devalues the racing.

A point was made on the SOM thread that Gavin Wills won 2 races and second in 1 yet is not really distanced from some lower down the field rivals, while this is good does it really reward Gavins achievments, in rights he should have a stronger than perhaps the middle of the championship table. Also rewarding all positions down to the end does not really punish you as hard as it should for a mistake, if you drop say down to 8th from first in the old points system that could well ruin your championship but with the new points it hardley makes a dent.

I also feel that with the new classes A-E that the overall win and class win is devaluated a little, this is mainly from a Combe point of view - if you came first, second or third overall it was an achievment (and still is) however when the announcments where made over the PA there was 4 class winners and a top 3, all in the top 3 a class A car won overall followed by a class B and C it detracted from the fact that the 3 class winners where acutally 1-2-3. It also makes it really hard to follow Combes championships of Pre/Post 90 years, eg: what difference does a Class D win make tot he pre 90 championship if it was 33 on the grid and didn't score any points in the Post 90 championship ? he won just by turning up, and vice versa the class A car that won was announced as a Class winner and overall winner - it simpley should have been an overall winner he was in an post 90 car and won the race, the end ! I personally feel it detracted from his win as there where only 2 class A's running.

Now for the king of kents - this championship table from your 3 best results, keeping in mind what I have said above seems pointless. The KOK should be (just for example) 3 stand alone races at 3 tracks as a little mini championship which is nothing to do or effecting the individual championship.

I feel the new rules and format has confused and devalued the racing thats going on within each local championship, however the bringing the rules together has brought the community and interest of the field of the sport together.

My final thoughts are....keep the 1 entry for all championships, go back to awarding points to the top 10 for example, run you local championships as just that local championships, have your own internal class structure for the championships and meet up for a grand race event or two called the King of Kents.
This is not bashing this is just my views, what do you all think ?

[diz]

Matt,
I basically agree with you. I think a lot of head scratching and discussion will take place this year about the points allocation / classes etc. Also the KoK concept as it is and maybe how it should be.
The basic ideas are sound and just need fine tuning. I think we'll just have to put up with what we've got this year and hopefully the 2005 version will be a lot better.

[Ian Sowman]

That is far too long a post!

On the point about Gavin's two podiums not really being rewarded. They will be at the end of the year, just at the moment 50% of the results (i.e. one out of two races) don't count, so it is completely skewed. It won't apply at the end of the season. Don't agree with that point or the one about awarding points all the way down I'm afraid.

Not sure I understood the next one about the classes. I think the classes needed to be split in this way (or a way similar to it) to separate out the new breed from the old - just in case they were to run away with it. And at Donington presentations and interviews were with the top three (all class winners) only I think.

King of Kents format - needs tinkering with, and I'm sure Steve would be happy to admit that this is an experimental year. I'm sure he will listen to driver and media feedback and modify it for 2005 according to what people want (he'd be stupid not to), within obvious restrictions. My own view is that there should be races at Croft, Thruxton, Brands, Combe, Mallory and Oulton that count towards the King of Kents Trophy. In addition a driver could count three scores from regional races - no more than one from any region - encouraging people to spread their wings, while being realistic in the amount they will do so.

[Ian Sowman]

And the points system - for the regions at least - isn't all that hard.

[diz]

In something like class E at Oulton, the likes of jminsh could nip in for one round, win the 'Pre87' race outright score 32 points and win the class championship, whilst the regular class E drivers are totting up the odd scraps of 2 points here, 4 points there.

[Ian Sowman]

True, but that would be more of an indicator of the strength of the class than anything else. Maybe there should be a rule saying you need to compete in > 50% of the rounds to be placed in the class standings?

[jminsh]

Thanks Diz but no chance this year as i hate the Foster's layout with a passion.

[50-SIX]

Perhaps we could get a bit of a protest together to try and get a round on the International. Perhaps we could set a picket line up at cascades at the first round!

[Paul Rayner]

As someone who has followed Formula Ford 1600 only from the spectating/reporting side, I find the idea of numerous classes confusing, I think any more than two classes is too many. I just want to see some really exciting single-seaters racing for a win, a third, a fifth place, whatever. Not an eighth overall but a fifth in class battling with someone in another class. But then, this is a championship for the competitors, and if they like it...

[Ian Sowman]

Classes aren't there for spectators - they are there to offer all competitors something to aim for. Same in any championship.

[RMR]

agree with matt. should be 2 class's. still havent worked out why post 95 or zetec conv are in different class's to say a rf90 or sc92? too complex

[Ian Sowman]

I think the idea of splitting them was that, with growing numbers of these cars - which are a bit of an unknown quantity - there was a chance that they could be quicker than (say) the RF90s, so it would be better to split them up to give the older cars something to race for.

This hasn't happened yet - but could do. In any case, everyone races for overall points and it is that classification that really matters.

[Redracer77]

If you speak to Blue Nose the Zetec conversions are mega..... so maybe we are right to put them in another class? Whether we have 1 class or 10 classes the race for the spectator is still the same, it just gives the people with older cars the chance to do well in the main race but still maybe win the class and feel like they have achieved.

[RMR]

zetec conv or class a's are mega???? i know of least 1 non zetec class a thats up there.

know what you mean though makes sense for others to grab some trophies. but i know what matt is saying could finish 22nd be the only car and get a trophy. anyway have to see how it pans out in the grand scheme of things. i quite like the points system tho makes it easier for people in mid field to compete against each other.

[darcym]

all good points, I was worried this thread would be taken as me bashing the new system and all the hard work of the BRSCC and co.

To give an example of what I mean about the class structure for Ian, I turn to a news paper review in the Bath Chron (our local rag) which has a good report on the race. It states that Ed Moore won the race and class (so what about the class ????) it then gives a few good mentions to Tim Reynolds who was second but also won his class, and Nick Jones who also won his class, it then goes down the field a bit to mention Andy Jones finished 5th in class but 8th overall and Steven Jenson who finished 8th in class and 13th overall ???? do Just in that small review we have

1 - 1
2 - 1
3 - 1

thats three class winners in the top three, There is only a pre/post 90's championship at combe so whats the point of Tim Reylonds or Ed Moore getting a "class win" they doing get any extra points for it ? they don't even get on the championship tables with it...because there is no pre 95/post 90 championship, then nick jones 3rd overall and 1first in his class....so thats fine, Andy Jones fith in class ???? again "so" and 8th overall, great he's on the championship table. Its just confusing and pointless and makes for 5 class winners each race that have nothing to do with the 2 championships. I know its sounds bad but what if Ed Moore had failed to finish tha John Adlam had been the class winner he was around 8 - 9 (I think)it woulc have been John Adlam class winner but 8th overall it would have been great for Jon to get 8th-9th but would he be a deserving class winner for simpley having the cash/time/skill to put together an RF04 ? would he have gained anything being a class winner ? does it confuse people ? (it looks like) and does it devalue the win if your not the pre90/post90 winners - I think yes. You have worked your socks of for that win (or not) there are 2 championships at combe if you didn't win either of those.....you didn't win its as simple as that. I got board listening to the fiver winners read out at the end of the race removing focus from the genuine top 3 (and nicks class win)

Do you see what I am trying to say now Ian ?

[RMR]

your losing sleep over this aren't you

[blue nose]

This class Idea made a mess of the Nw racing in 2001 in my own opinion there is nothing wrong with class A+B so why was it changed!

[JohnMiller]

With regard to the SoM points table, I was trying to be flippant that it seems a bit silly showing it with dropped scores now as the earliest he could actually have to drop a score would be round 12, so I can't see much point in showing it now. All it does is confuse everyone and most people will fail to finish (or enter) at least one race.

[Ian Sowman]

John

Round 12? There's only ten altogether. The full spreadsheet shows all the rounds so there is no problem at all with whether a dropped score is presented or not. I only presented it for convenience. I don't see how simply taking away someone's lowest score is in any way confusing!

Darcym - please calm down. We've had multiple classes in racing for years and it has worked perfectly fine. Why should it be different in FF1600? As for winners of pre- and post-90 'championships' (there is only one championship at Combe), it is still perfectly clear who has won them. If it bothers you, have a word with the commentators and whoever sends the copy to the Bath Chronicle and explain how you think it *should* be presented. They may listen.

[JohnMiller]

Round 10 then.

[dhart]

I think Matt is right,the regions know their own strengths and should class as they wish.The current class structure is both confusing and unecessary , why a class has been made for the new cars is crazy ,they conform so they can race, simple.
In 03 a 92 won coombe,a 90 won NW, an 89 won midlands,a 92won the festival, an 89 /92 won the walter hayes, so whats the problem, if you must, have a pre98 award or something ,otherwise you are going to get tactical racing for class positions and that is just sh!t!
As for the KOK just 4 or 5 stand alone events run by various clubs with no classes at say the regions venues and the festival and one of Mr Beckets fine events, dont let the BRSCC think KOK is theirs it s ours!
Oh and run ACB9,s

[darcym]

Ian I am as calm as the day is long, it just became clear to me after reading reviews and atually racing at the weekend that the work on setting the rules all the same and allowing people to flit from championship to championship was a great step, it really moves some of the stronger drivers around different championships and allows other drivers to broaden their experiences if they have time and cash. However the ammount of people that spoke to me, and didn't get what was going on, the ammount of class wins that was going on was frustrating, people asking me how Both Tim and Ed won but they where first and second, then why did Nick win if he was third and how was someone 17th yet a winner etc etc, and these where people who (apparantly) had been watching combe for ages. Its not a gripe its only my own view and I was just curious to see what others thought, it seems to be a little bit of a step backward from the simple aim of winning and being "they guy at the front"
I'm also a bit worried that you said there is only 1 combe championship I was certain they where still running post/pre 90's

nice to see other peoples views though

[JohnMiller]

I think there was a vote between 3 alternatives - all of which some felt were a backwards step.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if that was wrong.

Have a Class B for older cars if you want but I'd rather be racing (for class) against FF89s and RF04s.

It's now too convoluted so most people I've spoken to have just forgotten about the classes.

The race awards for SoM are overall (I think) and the annual awards for A/B and for C/D/E.

[Ian Sowman]

There has only ever been one championship permit for Castle Combe FF1600s as far as I am aware. You may have two classes, but only one championship. If each region wants to give different awards for amalgamations of classes, then that is fine.

Racing for class position is irrelevant as people will want to race for the overall championship points if they are in a position to do so. People would rather go for a win and get full overall points than tootle along to third, win their class but pick up less points for the overall championship, surely?

As for people who can't understand why the race now has five 'winners' - have they been equally confused by all the other multiple class races they have ever seen?

[JohnMiller]

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
People would rather go for a win and get full overall points than tootle along to third, win their class but pick up less points for the overall championship, surely?

I'm not so sure about that, particularly later in the year.

As for people who can't understand why the race now has five 'winners' - have they been equally confused by all the other multiple class races they have ever seen?

One of the major gripes of F4 and Monoposto is people haven't got a ****ing idea what is going on. For example, a client of mine asked why I got a trophy for finishing 22nd in a Monoposto race and thought it was rather bizarre when I explained that it was because 20 of those in front of me were in Mono 2000s with wings and I was in an FF.