Superbike World Championship effectively dead

[racer69]

Read this link......

http://www.amasuperbike.com/2003-Jul/030710black.htm

Not good news Lets hope this can be sorted out

[Yoong Montoya]

Damn, does that mean that Honda, Aprilia, Kawasaki and Yamaha are going to stick with MotoGP from now on? Ah well, at least I have the 2001 and 2002 reviews on DVD - the good old days.

[Alan Jones]

What a shame, I really enjoyed 1999 - 2001

[paulzinho]

Any chance that this is an attempt to make FIM change their mind?

Or am I just dreaming the impossible?

[wreckless]

wreckless collapses on the floor

[f1manoz]

Doesn't sound good at all? Sounds like someone is trying to play power-politics with the manufacturers. And that someone is not going to win...

[Warwick]

Its been coming for a while,why waste your time in a Championship when the rules are biased towards one particular manufacturer.

Its just a pity because the Suzuki was starting to look promising, but what were the rule changes they are talking about going to be.

[Rambo]

Anyone else could build a 1,000cc twin if they wanted. Honda did. They won the championship with it. Twice. Apprilia did. They won races. Chris Walker nearly beat Hodgson on a 750 Suzuki in the BSB - he even won more races! Haga should have beaten Edwards on a 750 Yamaha. Now the 4-cylinder bikes have an extra 250cc and they're still whining about Ducati?

The reason the different engine sizes for different engines was used was because theoretically a 1,000 4-cylinder bike will be able to get more power than a 1,000 twin. Same principle with Supersport, where the 600 fours thrash the 750 twins. Back in the old days, 750 fours and 1,000 twins got about the same power - now everyone whines because Ducatis are simply good. It's the Ferrari syndrome: "They can't just be that good, it must be biased toward them!" Ducatis are just damn good, because if it was just about a 1,000 twin, why did they still seem invincible? Why couldn't Aprillia mount a serious challenge? Why did Edwards not thrash Haga's R7 when he had a brand-new twin? Why did he seem the underdog against Bayliss all last year?

Suzuki are mounting a serious challenge. The bikes in Britain are beating the Ducatis now. If Kawasaki brought out a bike that wasn't about a million years old they might have a chance - but judging from their Moto GP efforts, maybe not!


It's cowardice. Almighty Honda win the world championship and then refuse to defend it, because the rules are biased against them? How can they be when their bikes is the same type as the Duke, running to the same rules? If the Rizzla team can do it, why won't the other teams? Why not put some factory effort into it?


But I say this - The 500 GP class shouldn't have gone to 4-strokes. I said at the time (on another forum) it would hurt SBK. But really there are too many top riders in GPs now and not enough top bikes. GP bikes are prototypes and not road bikes - in SBK you can watch a bike that you can own going round the track. You can take yours to a track day if you want - where's the marketting opportunites in Moto GP?

[racer69]

Here's how i see it:

Agree Rambo, the GP's should've stayed 500cc two stroke.

The only reason the 4 cylinder 750s weren't competitive in 01 & 02 is because Suzuki and Kawasaki didn't put in the same effort that those with the twins were. Honda were competitive with the RC45, and Haga on the Yamaha nearly won it in 2000, there was no unfair advantage, just that the one's doing a serious job had the twins. Kawasaki still had the same bloody bike they had in 1996!

The same is happening this year, Suzuki buggered it up for themselves. They were the one's who decided what, 3 weeks before Valencia, that they would afterall race, and that rather than build a race bike up from scratch, lets just let them convert a roadbike, and we'll only back one rider to start with (ok they added a second bike, but it's only a kitted one).

My tip to save the thing - keep the restrictors on the 4 cylinders, and make a rule that all bikes must be kitted bikes, not factory built race bikes.

[racer69]

Here's what the Flammini Group have to say (from www.worldsbk.com)

On the 9th July, the FIM - Federation Internationale Motorcicliste and FGSPORT decided to adopt a new set of rules for the FIM SUPERBIKE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, rules that have been harmonized with the AMA and British Superbike Championships and that are in the course to be adopted by :


- The FIM Superbike World Championship;
- The FIM Endurance World Championship;
- The AMA Superbike Championship ;
- The British Superbike Championship;
- The Italian Superbike Championship


Among the others, most probably, also DMSB will use them for the German National Motorcycle Top Series.


In consideration of all the above, we are glad to communicate the targets that we wish to achieve with those decisions :


• GLOBALIZATION : the great consensus achieved from so many partners of different countries is the best demonstration that the new rules are well designed and will therefore accelerate the development of the SUPERBIKE Class, Worldwide. One of the most important advantages generated with this situation is the possibility for the Teams to buy and sell their equipments in a huge market.


• AFFORDABLE COSTS : the current World economic situation suggested to create a regulation which makes easier for the participants to buy the necessary technology at an affordable price and with a high level availability.
This means to obtain “FULLGRID”.
Furthermore, such a regulation will create great opportunities for the “AFTERMARKET “.


• FAIR CONDITIONS FOR EVERYBODY : one of the most important goals of this regulation is to balance the performances among « PRIVATE and OFFICIAL TEAMS ».
The SUPERBIKE CLASS philosophy has been since the beginning : “Great Show and Controlled Costs”, something that offers to everybody the possibility to be competitive.


• LONG TERM VALIDITY OF THE RULES : in order to stabilize the SUPERBIKE CLASS the rules will be valid in the long term.


PS

• The AIR RESTRICTOR RULES : in order to mantain a sufficient level of performances, notwithstanding the limitation of the air-intake, the air-restrictor rules requested from the Manufacturers, need much freedom in the engine tuning.
This gives green light to the use of sophisticated technologies which cause high costs to the participants and diminishes the availability of tuned motorcycles in the market.
It is also important to underline that already during his press conference on the 21st of May, the FIM President, Francesco Zerbi, at the presence of the MSMA Representatives and the Promoters Representatives, announced the need to adopt different rules in order to safeguard the interest of the sport.
The new set of rules that will be adopted, by allowing an easier and wide access to the Superbike class, which will be nearer to the production motorcycles, will certainly represent a major step forward in the development of the motorcycle sport worldwide and in the general interest of all the parties involved.

I do like their motives for this though, which is to create a set of rules which are exactly the same for the World Championship, as well as in Britain, USA, Italy, Germany, France, maybe even this will encourage the Australian Championship to go back to FIM rules.

Lets hope the FIM and the manufacturers can kiss and make up.

[ATF]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
Damn, does that mean that Honda, Aprilia, Kawasaki and Yamaha are going to stick with MotoGP from now on?

After watching the Donington MotoGP and the Laguna Seca WSBK Race 1, there was no comparison. The WSBK race was clearly more competitive with more overtaking and not just a clear victor. It would be a real shame to be just left with RossiGP.

[Blue]

I think this new rule came little too late. When was the last time inline 4 won? You can say they didn't try hard enough, but is it worth to spend extra money to compete against twins in WSBK, which is just a production series? Honda could afford, but others simply couldn't.

[Rambo]

What's wrong with a production series? Touring Cars are more fun to watch than F1, aren't they?

Suzuki have had 3 wins on the trot in the British championship, and Lavillia and the british Wildcards came close to winning at Silverstone. The AMA wildcards at Laguna Seca showed the Suzukis were certainly competetive. If Suzuki can do it, Yamaha and Kawasaki can, too, surely? As for Honda - I hold them in utter contempt. If any team has the resources to put the effort into beating Ducati, it's Honda, but they'd rather stick to the series they're dominating in and always have done - the GP bikes.


Having a single, global set of rules can only help things because manufacturers can develop one bike to race in all the different series - which can only help cut costs, surely?

[Blue]

We already have regional superbike series like AMA, British, and all japan with factory involvement. In North america, it is American honda who supports and pay for factory team in AMA. They pushed Nicky, AMA champion, over Edwards to promote him to GP. The north america accounts for more than half of hondas overall mortorcycle sales, so their opinion weigh with honda. I've heard there was big debate over who should pay for the cost of participating in wsbk at honda. They eventually decided not to participate this year. WSBK wants to be global, but the manufactures are regionalized. Nobody wants to pay for Wsbk unless it is really attractive in marketing or offer some technical challenge different than regional superbike like motogp.

[pixie]

There are too many Egos involved for this to be worked out peacefully................. someones gonna have to go.. !!!

[racer69]

We had the MSMA side of things, now here is Flammini's:

Reinventing World Superbike

Flammini rocks the foundations of WSC with a new 'master plan'

by evan williams
Friday, July 18, 2003

"Here we are," said FG President Maurizio Flammini to begin a press conference held at Laguna Seca. Flammini and his brother Paolo -- the CEO of World Superbike's organizer FGSport -- answered questions after a whirlwind war of press releases last week. So where are we, really?

First, FGSport announced that the Superbike Permanent Bureau declared it would trash the air restrictor rules the manufacturers backed in favor of ones that required stock parts, much like the current AMA Superbike rules do. Then the MSMA -- the association of manufacturers -- announced they would, in turn, quit World Superbike en masse despite an agreement to return to the series several members had previously abandoned for 2004. FGSport countered with yet another release, refusing to back down and restating their aims of doing things their way.

The skirmish sent tremors through the motorcycle racing industry. The fight for power over the direction of Superbike racing -- and indirectly, the funding for the Superbike industry -- looked to be a white-knuckle ride, a revamp of the "chicken" scene from Rebel Without a Cause ... except using press releases instead of Chryslers. Observers noted that it is these types of conflicts that can kill racing series quicker than you can spell IMSA.

Flammini spoke of the 2001 accord that was to signify the return of the factories to World Superbike in 2004 under rules the MSMA had generated. "All the manufacturers (were to) be seen in 2004," Mr. Maurizio Flammini said at the Laguna Seca press conference. "After three years, at the last meeting of the MSMA, they said 'We can guarantee only one Japanese manufacturer'. Ducati had already confirmed (their participation)," he said. "So what (then)? In the end, the organizers must guarantee to the FIM, to the public, to the teams, to have motorcycles available and we can't do that. Because only two manufacturers (had committed for 2004), you can't guarantee that."

With only two manufacturer teams involved, FGSport felt the deal was off. "What we did was a restructure. You can't make a championship with four very good bikes, then nothing. We had to choose. Motorcycles that weren't available, some motorcycles that were eventually available for a very high price ... consequently, World Superbike for 2004 was not possible to be organized."

What resulted was an approach by FGSport that was not unlike NASCAR's in stock car racing, a dependence on dedicated race teams instead of factory-funded squads, a spec tire, a focus on limiting costs, and selling the personalities of the racers.

"We spoke with riders, teams, manufacturers, and other organizers like the AMA, UK, the Italian one, the German one. We very quickly formed an agreement. Motorcycles that are available in the market at an affordable price can be competitive. To give you some ideas of our technical direction, it will be similar to the AMA and UK ones. It won't be sophisticated, not expensive," he said.

A class with huge engine costs had to go if the organizers were to "restructure" the series for private teams to take the spotlight. "We accepted (the air restrictor rules) because the manufacturers said they are going to produce the bikes and for an affordable cost," Mr. Flammini claimed.

FGSport's plan promises to be aimed at providing a level playing field and reduced costs. "You can't have the teams spending too much ... on the bikes. We need them to have enough money for the bike, the riders, traveling, and marketing. Today, everyone is spending a fortune on the engine. Tomorrow, this cost will be one tenth." Too good to be true? We shall see.

For a series based on private teams, the air restrictor rules made little sense to FGSport. "We understood that were a number of problems and the costs were the first problem. The air restrictors are not the problem. You have full freedom in the engine. You can use very sophisticated technologies and you produce a lot of power and, in the end, you limit the power through the air restrictors," Mr. Flammini stated.

The main issue yet to be decided before the final rules are announced is what to do with the twin cylinder motorcycles. Ducati has always been the powerhouse of World Superbike and the rules must allow them to be competitive. Flammini said the question of how to do so should be answered when the new are confirmed, possibly before the end of the month.

Ah, yes. And the spec tire announcement ...

The real monkey wrench to many in the WSC paddock is the spec tire. Flammini was adamant that only one tire manufacturer would supply the field next year, stating it several times to the press at Laguna Seca. With sponsored teams traditionally getting the best rubber for free and the others paying for lesser tires, a spec tire is an unloved thing for the upper echelons of the paddock. "We like what Dunlop, Pirelli, and Michelin are doing now, " Flammini said. "Unfortunately, there are very different performances ... caused by the tires, not the motorcycles or riders. If you have an engine that is 20 horsepower better than the other, you can win two tenths, three tenths per lap over the others. But if you have a tire that is better, you can win one second. If you don't have that tire, you will never win."

"Some (tire) manufacturers supply only one or two teams," Flammini said. "Some teams have bad tires. They aren't competitive. We want World Superbike to be a championship for the manufacturers and riders, not the tires."

"We would like a fair condition for everyone," Flammini added, stating that his vision was much like Formula One car racing in the late 1980s when Goodyear supplied the entire grid with a choice of three or so different tires. "Each team would have the same possibility to win. You will remember three or four seasons ago, we had ten to fourteen riders within one second (of pole). We would like to go back to that."

Still, is a spec tire the answer? "It will solve big problems for the medium level and low level teams. (These teams) spend a lot of money on tires. Now they will spend a lot less." Flammini said that these teams should have a 50 percent less expenditure on their tire budgets next year.

But what about wild card riders, a main selling point of the confederation of Superbike organizers bandied about in the initial press release? There is no way that any tire manufacturer would allow their riders to compete in World Superbike on different branded tires because it opens up a potential marketing disaster. How does Flammini respond? He claims that problem will be tackled down the road. "The most important thing for the championship is to meet the goals of having competitive bikes," he said.

And just who will the spec tire maker be? It hasn't been decided yet according to FGSport, but paddock scuttlebutt says Italian tire maker Pirelli has the inside track. "There will be only one. Who it will be, we don't know, " he said.

Some feel that this whole series of events is just bluffing between the powers that be in motorcycle racing and eventually some compromise will come about. What is clear that the free-spending ways of MotoGP aren't for all of the manufacturers and World Superbike has always been a good place for them to make their mark with race fans without bankrupting the company. Infuriating the manufacturers -- many of whom might be more comfortable in WSC -- is a risky move since it is through their resources that most World Championship racing is funded.

But Flammini seems undeterred in the plan. "I believe what we are going to make is very good news for the Superbike family. We are enhancing the value of the championship, not lowering the value."

"We want to say once again, we have run this championship since 1988," Flammini said. "It has become quite an important championship. Sometimes, we have more (fans in attendance) than MotoGP and we are honored about that. I think this is because we have a very good atmosphere in World Superbike. It is an important factor. We have thousands and thousands of fans that are in touch with the riders. They go back home and say, 'I was shaking hands with (a rider). This is a good guy'. We will maintain this."

[asha]

looks like its all over to me.

[Yoong Montoya]

Damn, looks like bike racing will become F1 on two wheels

[f1manoz]

I might be in the minority here, but I think Flammini actually has some good ideas. Low-cost, competitive racing with more emphasis on the manufacturer, but more importantly, rider. A spec tyre has usually proved a good way to increase competitiveness across the board.

But I am worried about the stand-off with the manufacturers.

[SPman]

Rob muzzy has a good slant on things in thisinterview

[Rambo]

Suzuki have taken the last 5 races on the trot in the BSB championship. Pole at Laguna Seca, and of course, great showings by Suzukis at Silverstone, too. The Kawasakis and Yamahas went well at Mondello park, too.


The rise of "modern" tracks is a major factor in the demise of the 4-cylinder bikes. Instead of fast, flowing circuits we have more and more "point-n-squirt" circuits - which suit the massive torque of the twins. That's why I suggested going back to the old system that used to be in SBK of having different weights for twins, triples and fours, to try and get some equality in acceleration, without affecting top speeds too much. We haven't gone down that road but Suzuki have proved beyond doubt that a four-cylinder bike, based on a road bike, no less, can be competetive in Superbikes. They've actually de-tuned the Suzuki over the last two race weekends in the BSB series because there was too much power!

[Highlander]

Honda and Kawasaki will be there next season with works bikes. and I'll have money on it.

Honda have the new CBR998R that Heijiro Yoshimura (RCV211V designer) and HRC have had alot of imput in and Kwak have the new ZX10R. WSBK sells bikes its as simple as that