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19 Jun 2005, 16:35 (Ref:1332993) | #1 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7
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Wet car setup
Hi all im net to the fourm been visiting as a guest for some while decided to get involved, i hope i can bring somthing with me.
Just watched the BTCC oulton wet race and the front anti roll bar on the seat was disconnected, was it front only or rear aswell, i have known only the rear to be diconnected can you inlighten me to what this does please |
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19 Jun 2005, 16:37 (Ref:1332995) | #2 | |
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oops wrong button sorry
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20 Jun 2005, 08:44 (Ref:1334206) | #3 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,686
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In short, softens the disconnected end of the car considerably giving more grip in the wet.
On my rear wheel drive car we disconnect the the front bar to significantly reduce understeer in the wet (worth over a second at Brands). |
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20 Jun 2005, 13:51 (Ref:1334532) | #4 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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hmm . . .. all I can do is change my damper settings, something I've yet to play with ( I only fitted them last week) with the prospect of rain at Dijon (according to yahoo weather) I may be putting them to the test. the other thing we do is up tyre pressures slightly to try and open the treads out, having said that the tread seems to be of little use.
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20 Jun 2005, 15:18 (Ref:1334650) | #5 | ||
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I tested the same/higher/lower pressure thing some time ago and found a couple of pound lower resulted in better lap times round Brands. However that is on genuine road tyres and RWD so may not be relevent to all cars.
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20 Jun 2005, 20:34 (Ref:1335058) | #6 | ||
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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i used to find in my car a couple less psi all round worked best maybe with a little less damping, i have tried disconnecting roll bars, but the rear didn't do anything and the front just spoilt the turn in, this was in RWD with either slicks or list 1b (sticky) road tyres
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20 Jun 2005, 20:53 (Ref:1335085) | #7 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 470
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I always thought it was a couple more psi in the wet like zef says? (as your tyres will be colder, etc. etc. like the other thread
I've never tried disconnecting the roll bar because all the wet races I've done I was reticent to change what was ostensibly a working (and occasionally winning) set up... This year with my only 2 appearances being DNS's I'll disconnect anything just to have a working car...grrr |
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The wonderful dexterity of Hannu Mikkola, makes me want to shake hands with the whole of Finland. (Architecture And Morality, Ted And Alice - Half Man Half Biscuit) |
21 Jun 2005, 11:08 (Ref:1335678) | #8 | ||
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Join Date: May 2005
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I work with a Formula Ford and it bucketed down at the last round. Disconnected the rear bar and went to full soft. It was pretty much all guess work; still trying to fully understand dry setup, so wet was throwing **** at a wall and seeing what sticks!
For the first race we ran normal cold pressures plus 2 psi and the car was pretty unstable and 10% slower in lap time than the leader. Upped the pressures to what they usually run hot (19.5 psi) and the traction went through the roof and the difference to the leader dropped to 1.5%. Didn't have any softer springs to throw at the car and didn't really touch the dampers, though I wish I did. |
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21 Jun 2005, 11:29 (Ref:1335698) | #9 | |||
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21 Jun 2005, 11:54 (Ref:1335729) | #10 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Anti Roll bar's reduce weight tranfer to outside wheel in the wet or dry but in the wet , you are not able to tranfer as much weight because of greatly reduced co effeicent of friction .Damper's effect how fast weight is moved. Any softening either springs or roll bars usualy gives driver a bit more feel but we have found with F ford and F3 that it doesnt drop lap times so we dont do either. I allow the driver to slacken off the rear bar a bit ( It makes him feel better ) biggest thing though that no one above has mentioned ( If you can do it) is to Stand the wheels up near vertical and put more brake bias to rear, that does drop lap times I expect everyone is doing that anyway . FF tyre benefit from increased press but none of you seem to be anywhere near what they work best out . and no where near what Avon reccomend I have covered this before in a previous forum on tyre pressure. If you can afford it keep a set of tyres for wet use only ( Sharp edges squeegy water away ,round one's dont ) .
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21 Jun 2005, 11:55 (Ref:1335732) | #11 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2000
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Disconnect rear bar(RWD car), soften bump front and rear, tyre pressures to about 20(crossply) 22-26 (Radials), soften front spring pre load. Oh yeah and use wet tyres.
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21 Jun 2005, 11:56 (Ref:1335733) | #12 | ||
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oh yeah and madddog says, less camber and brake bias back
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A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel." |
21 Jun 2005, 14:02 (Ref:1335926) | #13 | ||
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Despite running real road tyres we still keep a set for wets. This is both for the increase tread depth (the dry's are buffed down, I actually PAY to remove tread I have PAID for!) but more importantly because the wets have never been subjected to the heat cycles that the dry's have. Probably more important with a heavy saloon car but probably also a consideration for maddogf3?
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21 Jun 2005, 20:23 (Ref:1336394) | #14 | |||
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22 Jun 2005, 11:38 (Ref:1337035) | #15 | |||
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22 Jun 2005, 13:56 (Ref:1337216) | #16 | ||
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22 Jun 2005, 15:20 (Ref:1337306) | #17 | ||
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Running fresher tyres as wets rather than ones that have been through a number heat cycles in the dry.
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23 Jun 2005, 07:38 (Ref:1338005) | #18 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Wet tyres -- Standing water new tyres ( gives massive drop in times can be 1.5 sec ) If its damp try to run with slicks if wet have an a set of tyres that have done one wet race We keep cycling the tyres so worn ones are binned then the ones that have only done one race replace them, if that makes sense ( We do get a little sponsor money that pays for tyres ) . Slicks being about £ 600 a set . last year we were quite competive . Dont know whats happened this year we seem to of lost a second of our previous times -- last time that happened it was a damper that had gone off They are charged with nitrogen at 300 lbs and I cant even compress them to feel damping . We had them done and got times back that was 18 months ago so I am in the process of sending them off again In ff we again tried to use new tyres for every race but kept a brand new set for wet if they got used then they were then used in the dry next time and a new set of wets purchased .With the new one's ,I got steve to do 2 laps to get mould release crap off at far less than race speed they were then ready for the wet , THIS ALL WORKED FOR US . Steve was known to be bloody good in the wet,( we came second last year at Donnington in the wetand that with a car thats 18 years old ) hope that clears up ,where I am coming from Oh I do know all the why and where for of buffing tyres up and the use of road tyres on race cars . but I didn't know there was a saloon car class using them or have i got what you said wrong |
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24 Jun 2005, 21:12 (Ref:1339510) | #19 | ||
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Join Date: Jun 1999
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ahh only worth a second a lap if your driver will use them tho!!!
some drivers ive found work best working up to the lap time. perhaps the older drivers!!???? lol bollocx do play a HUGE part in racing as you all know im sure!!! got a q tho, tyres take abit to warm up, new tyres take a while to warm up? so are they quicker on the 2nd lap or 10 laps in when fully hot ? |
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25 Jun 2005, 22:52 (Ref:1340122) | #20 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 153
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[
got a q tho, tyres take abit to warm up, new tyres take a while to warm up? so are they quicker on the 2nd lap or 10 laps in when fully hot ?[/QUOTE] DEAR THR am not telling you ---- Use your most worn tyres at all times pref after 500 mile hard racing and 12 months testing for most important races . Keep new tyre in the Avon Truck where they belong and only put in 15 litres of unleaded and set tyres to 10 lbs pressure best wishes Martin |
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26 Jun 2005, 20:08 (Ref:1340498) | #21 | ||
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lol yea ok.
not as if we get new tyres very often anyway!! once? twice a year?? |
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26 Jun 2005, 20:58 (Ref:1340543) | #22 | ||
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THR - One of the benefits of running a series sponsored by a tyre manufacturer (Toyo) that gives big discounts.
Hurrah. |
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28 Jun 2005, 14:33 (Ref:1342022) | #23 | ||
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