Safety at the Dakar?

[Sheila M]

There has been a lot of talk on various TV programmes about safety at the Dakar. As Marshals do you consider the Dakar to be safe?

[The STIG]

Like all motorsports - there is inherant danger, prehaps more so with the Dakar because of the extreme off road environments it is raced through
. but much can be done to reduce the risks. Spectator saftey is non existant on the dakar - with nothing to protect the speccies from the bikes, cars and trucks. not even barrier tape (not that that's going to stop 11 tons of truck - but it may stop spectators trying to cross the stage...

[Mark Mitchell]

I voted SAFE - why would anyone consider it unsafe?

It's the competitors - or some of them - who may be unsafe!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by The STIG

Spectator saftey is non existant on the dakar - with nothing to protect the speccies from the bikes, cars and trucks. not even barrier tape (not that that's going to stop 11 tons of truck - but it may stop spectators trying to cross the stage...

Cough!..wrong.

[Woolley]

Of course it's not, but it also has a reputation of which no competitor can be in doubt and so they are fully aware of the risk they are taking.

Lots of people die or suffer injury climbing Everest too, but it doesn't stop others trying and nor should it.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Of course it's not, but it also has a reputation of which no competitor can be in doubt and so they are fully aware of the risk they are taking.

Lots of people die or suffer injury climbing Everest too, but it doesn't stop others trying and nor should it.

I'm with the Wooley (if he will pardon the expression )

Jim

[Gridlock]

Hmmmmmm _ Have I seen somewhere notice's that says "Motor Sport is Dangerous" ????

[Eddy V]

I voted for lunacy, two kids in two days! And how many people have died since they started this madness?
I know it is up to the drivers, but don't we marshals advocate safety? So why defend such an event?

They should rebadge the event as a raid and not a rally (damaging the proper rallies) and get rid of the very (too) powerfull cars driven by rich or famous novices/stars who don't know a thing about desert racing.

I'm not against the event itself, just the way it is run.


I'll go and hide now.

[Asp]

It's unsafe, of course it is. But so's everything.
One must consider that the two children who were sadly killed were done so on what are public roads. Yesterday's happened on the main road in Senegal - thousands of vehicles travel that road a day, and any one could have been in a similar accident. It just so happens that both were there to watch the rally and sadly lost their lives after an incident with a rally vehicle.
However, from watching interviews with the race organisers yesterday you can tell there is a feeling that changes may be made for the African population who support the Dakar and stand road-side to watch it - in terms of avoiding more of the heavily populated areas.

But that must be contrasted with other factors - those people that line the Dakar route are there because they love it. The Senegalise government wanted today's stage to continue because it is a "National Event". And the Dakar has also saved lives, through the "Action Dakar" project and elsewhere.

I know this hasn't been explicitily asked in this thread yet, but there is a subtext behind a lot of these "is the Dakar safe" question - and that's should the Dakar still continue? And the simple answer is yes - not just the Dakar, but all the Rally Raids. They bring a lot to the communities they travel through, and despite of the frequent sadness that is sadly suffered, the bring joy and hope to many more. We should continue to make the events safer, of course we must, but it will always be unsafe - it's the nature of the type of event.

[sss]

sure its dangerous, but then thats life and motorsport, in fact marshalling can be safe, unsafe and total lunacy at times!

surely run in an organised manner with the safety support that comes with it is better than people left to their own devices to run unofficial rally raids.

Oh and I would love to compete in it.

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

Cough!..wrong.

Elaborate please

[chezza]

I think he was meaning that a little bit of tape won't stop people from trying to cross a stage. People these days have no respect for anything like that, they will go anywhere and do anything they want to do, tape or no tape.

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by chezza

People these days have no respect for anything like that, they will go anywhere and do anything they want to do, tape or no tape.

well that's a point. but at least an effort has been made to try and do something.

[Woolley]

I hadn't heard about the kids before, and that's desperately sad. However, as Asp said, this was onthe main road and has to be considered apart from the rally - it wasn'tan on-stage incident and is really just a normal road accident. Doesn't make it any less unfortunate, but the circumstances absolve the rally, IMO.

Bearing that in mind, you wouldn't expect to tape off the main road, in the same way you don't tape off half of Wales just because the cars are travelling between stages. If the vehicles are not following the laws and rules of the road then that is a different matter. Worryingly, the FIA threatened the Wales rally GB a few years ago after the police mounted an offensive against such inconsiderate driving, but that is off-topic here.

On the stages then I believe more control is exerted and that is right, and I'm sure there is massive publicity to warn the locals that the rally is coming through. Inthe end, there is still only so much you can do on an open road raid with non-determined routes.

[The STIG]

Erm. the first child was hit on stage as I understood it

[Circuitmarshal]

Looks like they should do more towards those NOT taking part.
Those that are taking part know (or should) be aware of the risks.

[Asp]

Originally Posted by The STIG

Erm. the first child was hit on stage as I understood it

Just to clarify, this is the case, but as I understand was still on a section of public road.
The big problem was that it was outside a village (where there is a speed limit), but there was still a crowd of people. All the population are given information about the rally, rules to obey, posters are put up to help the safety, so the rally does a great deal to prevent accidents such as this.

Watching the coverage this evening, the president of Senegal appears likely to ask that the rally avoids villages next year and takes diversions. This is not a surprise really, but it appears that no-one can have a solution in how to ensure the safety of everyone who stands roadside to watch the rally pass, especially those outside the speed-limit controlled zones.

[Wet marshal]

As GRIDLOCK stated,Motor sport is dangerous.as are most dangerous activities!

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by Asp

Watching the coverage this evening, the president of Senegal appears likely to ask that the rally avoids villages next year and takes diversions.

maybe they can put exclusion zones around the villages by means of GPS - the system is already in place for the speed limit rule

[Asp]

Originally Posted by The STIG

maybe they can put exclusion zones around the villages by means of GPS - the system is already in place for the speed limit rule

It would just be a different route, providing the drivers follow the road map they'll be fine.

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Of course it's not, but it also has a reputation of which no competitor can be in doubt and so they are fully aware of the risk they are taking.

I think that's probably what I had in mind when I started this thread.

Yes, I too think it is dangerous, but there again all motorsport is dangerous - that's why we are there!

I just wondered what the rest of you thought.

[Ian Briggs]

Its probably worth noting that in the event of an accident to either crew or public the availability of medical cover whilst the raid passes through is way above what is normally there in North Africa, that holds good for the UK too, it is not unknown for a Stage Rescue crew to deal with a hiker who injures themself, or has a heart attack, even tough they just went for a walk in the woods, not knowing there was a rally on.
The Paris Dakar is classed as a raid, not a Rally, and you cannot stop playboys having so long as the equipment is per the regs, and they obey the rules, if you started to legislate on who has the ability to drive events British Club racing would be a bit thin!

[Cynic]

IMO any form of rallying is inherently dangerous. Rally-Raids more so because of the environment and terrain. Part of the appeal of the Dakar is the danger and chance to overcome it - with the number of fatalities the competitors have suffered over the years I doubt anyone competing has any illusions over safety, but what's the old saying - It wont happen to me? Yes it's tragic when locals are killed, but as has been mentioned the medical and emergency cover the organisers provide is as good as it could be, and you only have to look at the TV pictures of villagers lining up to cheer vehicles as they pass through villages to see what it means to them. I'd prefer to see this continue as at least there is some measure of control (speed limits, fixed routes etc). Avoid populations or have exclusion zones etc and that is just asking for spectators going into the active stages and putting themselves at even more risk.