Can B.A.R keep it up and challenge?

ralf fan · 4 Feb 2004, 14:21 (Ref:862734)

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlin...03185910.shtml

Taku now breaks Jensons record... so basically my question is can BAR actually do it in the real races... dont forget they are now on Michies which will probably improve their chances.

climb · 4 Feb 2004, 14:43 (Ref:862764)

I hope so, ralfie, but I dont' think they will immediately be at the top four level.
Certainly BAR has never set this kinda lap records in the past, and this surely means an appreciable improvement in performance, but for now I wouldn't emphasize too much the timesheets in this period of testing: IMO they seem to be the only team interested at setting good times.
Good for them in the search of new sponsors, but at this stage of the season it's more useful to use time to test tyres, aerodynamics, reliability etc, elements who are not related to pure speed.

ElScOrChO · 4 Feb 2004, 14:51 (Ref:862770)

I think that in a couple of races, they will be able to fight with Ferrari,Williams and McLaren.

And all the other races, they will be able to fight with Renault.

GP Racer · 4 Feb 2004, 14:52 (Ref:862771)

There doesn't seem to any doubt now, that both the BAR car, and BOTH of there drivers are ready to challenge the top 4.

Not only are they breaking track records, but the reliability seems to be right-on also, and we all know that was a glaring problem for the team last season. Also taking in the fact that Renault has lost Gascoyne and has a new engine, may give BAR a decent shot at the top 4.

shiny side up! · 4 Feb 2004, 15:03 (Ref:862781)

First off, I voted no, but that doesn't mean I don't want them to succeed, I just don't think they will.

Who knows if their pace shown in testing will show up on a GP weekend. Even if it does, a team and driver must learn how to win, how to do all the little things necessary throughout the weekend... and based on all the shenanigans that went down in the BAR camp last year, I just don't think they are ready to compete reliably at a top level.

If this pace is real, then maybe they will be able to score a few podiums... or a chance win... but I don't think they will be a team to contend with consistantly throughout the season.

**BertMk2** · 4 Feb 2004, 15:36 (Ref:862817)

They've shown good pace in testing but I'm not convinced that they'll be able to translate that into good race results. I think they've made a step forwards but don't think they'll have done enough to catch the top 3. They'll be mixing it with the Renaults, Jags, Toyotas and Saubers - the midfield is going to be really tight again. Jordan and Minardi will bring up the rear (although I hope Jordan can get in amongst the midfield regularly).

Good to see Taku going well though, I hope both he and Jenson have a good year.

Mr V · 4 Feb 2004, 15:48 (Ref:862832)

Not sure they will be able to challenge Renault for 4th, but they will be a much improved team from last season and easily hold onto 5th spot in the WCC.

Glen · 4 Feb 2004, 16:06 (Ref:862859)

I voted no - but I wouldn't phrase it like that. It's not such a black and white question, and they well pull the odd suprise - just not over the entire season.

Glen · 4 Feb 2004, 16:09 (Ref:862861)

Quote:

Originally posted by climb
Good for them in the search of new sponsors, but at this stage of the season it's more useful to use time to test tyres, aerodynamics, reliability etc, elements who are not related to pure speed.

Like they aren't doing those things as well! Why do people have to assume either one extreme of the other? Of course they wouldn't go testing and just do qualifying set-up for days on end!

Webslinger · 4 Feb 2004, 16:30 (Ref:862887)

It was a couple of one off's from Button and Sato, to enable them to show what the car could do. BAR have very rarely allowed any of their drivers' to go for a low fuel, new tyre qualifying run. The fact they have means we get a good indication of the car's potential. I for one wish them well - they need a morale boost!

GP Racer · 4 Feb 2004, 16:53 (Ref:862911)

Quote:

Originally posted by shiny side up!

Who knows if their pace shown in testing will show up on a GP weekend. Even if it does, a team and driver must learn how to win, how to do all the little things necessary throughout the weekend... and based on all the shenanigans that went down in the BAR camp last year, I just don't think they are ready to compete reliably at a top level.

I think the source of alot of the shenanigans, left the team last season.

I'm looking for a whole new team attitude this year, motivated, cohesive, and ready to win...

jetsetter · 4 Feb 2004, 21:05 (Ref:863139)

I don't think that they'll challenge for a top four position overall but i wouldn't be suprised if they managed the occasional podium finish through the season.

neilap · 4 Feb 2004, 21:29 (Ref:863173)

Quote:

Originally posted by climb
Good for them in the search of new sponsors, but at this stage of the season it's more useful to use time to test tyres, aerodynamics, reliability etc, elements who are not related to pure speed.

I guess Renault are in need of sponsors too because they went pretty fast today too. Are sponsors really that stupid? How can we know testing is not the whole story and the people who spend millions not be able to figure that out.

Its just like BAR said. They need to know where the car is. Thats it! If you dont test the limits you will never know them. That simple...

I will not make a prediction because the other teams could have made a leap too. However, I am feeling positive about the BAR for the first time in years. As usual, I expect the worst but hope for the best! Yes, I want them to finish at least 3rd!!!

Hungary 89 · 4 Feb 2004, 21:51 (Ref:863208)

Richards has proven that he can build a championship winning team in WRC, He has been assembling the right personel they have had a full year to Gel and this is the first year that will not be compromised by the Old BAR setup I voted yes I believe that they can start to worry the top four on th odd occasion this year.

That said I would be surprised to see them challenging for the championship in the next few years

Arneal · 5 Feb 2004, 00:20 (Ref:863435)

A few years ago we talked about the top 3 teams, last year we talked about the top 4, this year I think it will become the top 5. I suspect that Ferrari, Mclaren, and Williams will still be the class of the field, but that Renault and BAR will both be very competative. These five teams will score the great majority of the points which will make it difficult for the remaining teams to get into double digits for their season points total.

BARs move to Michellins, Willis development input, Hondas new engine, and the use of a Honda gearbox should push them at minimum into a strong fight for fourth.

Mark Webber · 5 Feb 2004, 02:19 (Ref:863534)

the 1 engine rule will hurt BAR the most IMO

neilap · 5 Feb 2004, 05:09 (Ref:863621)

Jag does not exactly have the best record with motors either. There is little reason to believe Honda will suffer more than others. Their motors have been very reliable lately. Last year only two incidents were blamed on the motor. The motors that blew up in testing were either "near the end of their lives" or the issue has been addressed.

Meroo · 5 Feb 2004, 05:18 (Ref:863624)

Predicting big year for BAR, which will unfortunately show that Jacques missed the boat big time.

ascarracinguk · 5 Feb 2004, 05:20 (Ref:863628)

i think reliablility will definately be the key

Smokey 6 litre · 5 Feb 2004, 08:58 (Ref:863714)

i can see BAR getting a few goood results this season if some races dont run smoothley, an accident at the start, luck with weather/stratergies.
And hopefully a win for Jenson!

BootsOntheSide · 5 Feb 2004, 12:03 (Ref:863901)

On pace I think they'll frequently be fourth, sometimes higher. They have so many things looking good this yerar, and Renault will be affected by having to change engines, and the loss of Gascoyne will affect as the season goes on.

Now that you can't run illegal cars in testing, we know that the times being set are what can be achieved at low-fuel, and the other teams ahve done low-fuel runs without faster times.

Andrew Kitson · 5 Feb 2004, 12:27 (Ref:863932)

If BAR can keep it going, this may happen more often!
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=49704

GP Racer · 5 Feb 2004, 14:03 (Ref:864072)

Very nice Andrew!

While I certainly would like to see BAR do well this season, I don't really want to see them do THAT well!

shiny side up! · 5 Feb 2004, 14:44 (Ref:864105)

Nice work, Andrew!

I must admit, this Poll is much closer than I thought it would be... I was sure that more people would think that BAR's preseason form wouldn't hold true once the action is 'for real'...

I'm curious, though, if people are confident of BAR's performance, or if it is indeed Jenson (or Sato) that they are so sure will deliver this season...

Red · 5 Feb 2004, 14:57 (Ref:864113)

Hmm, it's close, but not the way that poll is put... I think that Toyota + Jag + BAR will put up a nice fight and seriously challenge Renault. I don't think that any of them will seriously trouble Willy-Beemers, McMercs and Ferrari though. Not yet, that is.

View Poll Results: BAR are they a force in 04?
Yes- watchout the top 4 here they come	36	45.00%
NAHhh- testing doesnt mean a thing... top 4 are too good	44	55.00%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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