Ford selling Cosworth - part of the Jag F1 fall out.

[Fogelhund]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=31128

Ford have also put engine supplier Cosworth on the market, raising questions over the future of Minardi and Jordan too.

I have no idea what this means for the Ford Cosworth in ChampCars, but it doesn't sound particularly good. It is particularly puzzling given the recent Ford remarks.

[BootsOntheSide]

It's what's known as "joined up business management".... one arm of the company saying one thing without being aware of the bigger picture. There's no way a new engine spec can be ready for 2005, so someone will have to maintain the existing engines for next year, otherwise CART is gone.

[Fogelhund]

GM to buy Cosworth?

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns13518.html

Benefit:confused: I guess that depends on your perspective.

There might also be a side benefit for GM buying Cosworth as Chevrolet is a supporter of IRL and buying Cosworth would go a long way to wiping out Champ Cars

[Testure]

As Boots notes, all that's currently required is maintenance and that's something that can be worked out. The IRL is in the same position with regard to the "Chevrolet" (stifle your laughter) engine. So I don't think it's as bad as it might seem. If somebody does indeed buy Cosworth, then things should be OK still. They're both money-making contracts so should still be attractive to any potential buyer.

[Fogelhund]

I suppose this is completely dependent on the buyers goals with the purchase. If they buy the company as a business, then likely both the IRL and OWRS engines are safe. If they buy Cossie as a marketing means, then both engines future are questionable (again depending on the buyer).

If GM buys to market GM, then will they want to support OWRS? Hard to say.

If someone like Forsythe bought Cosworth, then you'd think it would be safe.

If someone like Panoz bought it, then it would be a business and all would be safe.

If Red Bull buys it, to run an F1 team, will they continue.....

It's all speculation at the moment, and totally dependent on who the buyer is, and what their goal is.

[Uesque]

Originally posted by Fogelhund

If GM buys to market GM, then will they want to support OWRS? Hard to say.

Stay in IRL as #3 or move to OWRS and win every race? I know what I would do, but then again, this is the company that actually built the Aztek.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by Uesque
Stay in IRL as #3 or move to OWRS and win every race? I know what I would do, but then again, this is the company that actually built the Aztek.

and dumped a Cadillac LMP program that was just starting to get good racing results...

GM buying Cosworth scares me....because their commitment to such efforts is extremely shallow....

[BootsOntheSide]

I think the F1 project (in terms of their infrastructure and F1 entry rights) is being sold seperately to the Cosworth engine concern though Fogel, so your Red Bull scenario is unlikely.

If the worst comes to the worst and whoever buys Cosworth is keen to see the back of CART, I'm sure PG or someone would buy the engine supply and keep them maintained.

However, I'm starting to think completely new engines, not rebuilds, are required to start to get back towards reliability. These things are getting old, and failures are no longer a once-in-a-blue-moon event. By the end of next year I can imagine 3-year-old engines being far too volatile.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by Uesque
Stay in IRL as #3 or move to OWRS and win every race?

DO people actually credit Ford/Cosworth with a 100% success record though? Like building the Aztech, that would be completely misguided and ill-concieved from the start.

[Snrub]

I just read this news elsewhere I immediately came hear in a panic. After reading the the posts and thinking about this for a minute, I realize it doesn't mean the end of CC.

Ford may not bail on us. Cosworth could still do engine stuff for Ford. If Cosworth and Ford cease to work together, Ford could have some other company build/maintain CART engines. Alternatively let's say GM buys Cosworth. Can you really see them sticking around in the IRL? They've got the same problem as Ford in F1, so their solution will be to leave. Who says GM might not run in both series. Given that it's only a seven figure prosition, CART offers good value. Worst case scenerio the engines are unbranded, but CART pays someone to build/maintain them. (I tend to think it won't get that bad)

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
DO people actually credit Ford/Cosworth with a 100% success record though?

You're suggestion is completely correct, Ford is a horribly run company. That's why their biggest success in F1 was beating poor old Jordan.

[Fogelhund]

OWRS already owns the Cosworth engines. It's the servicing and parts that are of concern. Without a supply of parts, and knowledgeable service, they become paper weights.

Red Bull//Dofasco//Some other interested party Speculate here// are interested in running an F1 team. That interest may, or may not include the Cosworth engines. There is nothing to indicate that Ford is selling Jaguar F1 and Cosworth together, or seperately. But, if the right offer comes along.....

Who really knows right now?

[Uesque]

Originally posted by Snrub

You're suggestion is completely correct, Ford is a horribly run company. That's why their biggest success in F1 was beating poor old Jordan.

Funny, wasn't Stewart GP a team on the rise when Ford bought them?

[Uesque]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
DO people actually credit Ford/Cosworth with a 100% success record though?

No, because they're not savvy enough to market it.

[macdaddy]

From SpeedTV:

Speaking at the announcement, Ford's Technical Officer Richard Parry-Jones said about Cosworth's American business: "We intend that Cosworth is kept as a going concern, and since we intend for it to be profitable, it must have contracts and sources of revenue.

"The American racing series are important sources of revenue, so we will continue to negotiate with the North American entities to find a mutually acceptable solution that fits the model for Cosworth Racing going forward."

In a complete restructuring over the past week, Ford in Europe has ended its F1 program, and is expected to quit the World Rally Championship.

[Snrub]

Thank god! Thanks for posting that macdaddy.

[Tim Northcutt]

This question was raised on the other Forum, but I wanted to ask one of my own

Do we know waht Cosworth is worth ($$$value)?

now for the other question asked on the other Forum:

"Would Tony George make a play for Cosworth???


Let's hope NOT....

[Fogelhund]

Ford can intend all it want's, but once its sold, what Ford intends doesn't matter anymore. Cosworth has a wonderful tradition though, and I hope it continues with that tradition.

[paul-collins]

Champcar isn't a partner for Cosworth, it's a revenue stream?

...perhaps Cosworth Technology (Audi) will reunite with Cosworth Racing (Ford)?

[Amar7605]

I feel that Cosworth is a reputable and profitable business, but probably not as profitable as Ford would like it to be.

But I am sure that whoever buys Cosworth will inheret all of the contracts that are there, like Champ Cars. I have a feeling that the maintainence and support issue is a small one and will be worked out.

[macdaddy]

Maybe they could get Duralube or Slick50 to sponsor ChampCar?
It would be great publicity if they could get a fleet of engines to last one million miles each! Perhaps they could run LasVegas with no oil in the engines, flood them with a firehose first, and make a TV commercial about it?

I'm kidding, of course. Just trying to make light of a very serious issue.

[jjspierx]

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/12971/

"It comes as no surprise that Ford has decided to take these actions,” said Eidswick. “It is important to note the Champ Car World Series owns the Cosworth XFE engines our teams currently use, and that this decision will not impact Champ Car’s ability to compete now or in the future." - Dick Eidswick

[macdaddy]

Eidsick has a point. They own the engines. They can take them apart whenever they wish. They can outsource for parts provided they can find a shop to build them, and that shouldn't be a problem. What they won't get is Cosworth's engineering, but with new specs due out after next year, they can get by with what they've got. What the teams, and OWRS, should be doing right now is buying a few more engines to make sure they'll start at least 18 cars at next year's finale, and putting their feelers out for somebody to do rebuilds, just in case.

[Kicking-back]

Sensible approach there, macdaddy.

I've a feeling this will all end up being positive for ChampCar.

[macdaddy]

"I've got a feeling this will all end up being positive for ChampCar."
- Kicking-back, 17 Sep 2004

So do I. Ford isn't pulling out of motorsports. Are they folding their NASCAR operations? They're folding F1 badging, and selling Cosworth. I've not read anything that they're pulling out of OWRS. Ford is as "international" as you get - and if they aren't in F1 or Rally, where are they going to get race exposure? Perhaps they've got a close eye on what next year's schedule is gonna be. They see some big international markets being tapped into, at a fraction of F1's cost, and will decide to take the series' engines in-house? I notice that all of the quotes to date come from "Ford in Europe" and Detroit hasn't said a word. Coupling this with Ford's encouraging words of just a few days ago, I feel optimistic.

Even if things turn for the worst, this would be THE MOST opportune time for another manufacturer to step in. And we all know that Pook has spoken to them previously!

[Snrub]

Originally posted by macdaddy
They own the engines. They can take them apart whenever they wish. They can outsource for parts provided they can find a shop to build them, and that shouldn't be a problem.

Good point, that's why I'm not too worried (anymore), but I will voice one potential problem. Does the series own the engineering specs, CAD drawings, etc? If not and they want more engines and/or parts of engines there may be a problem if Cosworth is sold.

Regarding the new engine/chasis specs, I'm very nervous they won't do it right. If it gets poor reception like the previous spec we may be back with the current one. (which is a terrific spec)