Driver Rankings

[rocketracer]

chunterer's post in another thread "will fissi..." got me thinking:

Who are the top drivers from number 1 down (regardless of cars) in your opinion? not who they have been, not who they could be, but WHO are the top 10 form drivers at this very present moment in F1?

(IMO top 3 goes without saying)

1. Alonso
2. Michael
3. Kimi
4a. Webber - i'm australian, i don't care, webber is driving the wheels off that williams...
4b. Button - could possibly be higher as his quali has been a sensation, but his racing (or is that his car?) lets him down...
4c. Ralf - he's been inconsistent in the past, but he's really driving well ATM
4d. JPM - i think he will be in top 3 form drivers by seasons end, but imola was his only excellent drive so far (until this weekend hopefully...)
8. Villeneuve - he's slightly outperforming (IMO) his much fancied teammate and showing his class and experience.
9. Massa - doing a fine job, apart from melbourne. consider this: of all those driving a new car this year, who has adapted as well as massa?
10. Fisi - imola wasnt good, but apart from that hes been pretty good, but overshadowed by FA

dishonourable achievers:

1. Ide
2. trulli
3. rubens

[Menelaos]

I think I'd rate Kimi first, but we can't really know. Alonso could be very good at charging, but he never had to. Schumi is not as good as he used to be imo. So:

1. Kimi, Alonso, Schumi
4. JPM, Button
6. Ralf, Trulli, Fisi
9. Coulthard, Massa

[BootsOntheSide]

Trulli and Rubens are capable of a lot more than they are showing at the moment. They are certainly more talented than Albers or Montiero.

On current ability I'd probably put Fernando ahead of Michael, with Kimi a close third. JPM and Button about equal in 4th, with the rest of the top 10 very close - probably Fisichella, Ralf, Webber, Nico and Coulthard in some order.

[Menelaos]

I agree about Trulli. He's always been a very good driver in my opinion. Much closer to the top than what most people think, although not among the top three drivers by any means. When it comes to RB I don't know why but I never liked that guy. I mean, I can't remember any really impressive race by him. His first win (with Hakkinen 2nd) was the most ridiculous, overhyped and overrated win I can remember, after two or three safety cars and gambling with rain. Plus, a couple of accidents that he (imo) has caused. Nothing really special in my opinion - although, obviously, "nothing special" compared to the other F1 drivers, not compared to me

EDIT: I forgot to mention Nico, who seems to be about to become a very good driver. He'll need a couple of years of experience though.

[Dan Fielden]

1) Alonso
2) Raikkonen
3) M.Schumacher
4) Montoya
5) Nico
6) Button
7) Massa
8) R.Schumacher
9) Heidfeld
10) Webber

Lack Lustre

1) Ide (get rid IMO)
2) Barrichello (3rd to 11th!!? and overall bad start to season)
3) Monteiro

[Schummy]

1.Alonso
2/3.MSchum/Kimi (Kimi has disappointed me a *little* bit so far)
4.Monty
5.Button
6.Nobody
Things become more blurred below. Maybe I forget someone.
7.Webber
8.Fisi
9.Nico?
.
.
.

[maltafan]

Top three at the moment
FA, KR and MS

then,
JPM, JB, NR (in the near future)

after
MW, RB, Fisi, and Nick

[Knowlesy]

Hmmmm....

At the moment I see it like this.

Tier 1: Fernando Alonso

Tier 2: M Schumacher
Tier 3: Kimi Raikkonen/Juan Pablo Montoya/Jenson Button

Tier 4: Mark Webber/Ralf Schumacher/Nico Rosberg/Nick Heidfeld/Jacques Villeneuve/Christian Klien
Tier 5:Takuma Sato/Vitantonio Liuzzi/Scott Speed/David Coulthard

Tier dissapointment and unnoticable: Giancarlo Fisichella/Jarno Trulli/Felipe Massa/Rubens Barrichello

Tier crap: Yuji Ide

Anyone from tier 1-5 I'd have in my team at this moment in time.

[maltafan]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Hmmmm....

At the moment I see it like this.

Tier 1: Fernando Alonso

Tier 2: M Schumacher
Tier 3: Kimi Raikkonen/Juan Pablo Montoya/Jenson Button

Tier 4: Mark Webber/Ralf Schumacher/Nico Rosberg/Nick Heidfeld/Jacques Villeneuve/Christian Klien
Tier 5:Takuma Sato/Vitantonio Liuzzi/Scott Speed/David Coulthard

Tier dissapointment and unnoticable: Giancarlo Fisichella/Jarno Trulli/Felipe Massa/Rubens Barrichello

Tier crap: Yuji Ide

Anyone from tier 1-5 I'd have in my team at this moment in time.

Quite agree with you, but I would rate MS higher, although I do not side with him. Without him, Ferrari would not have won those championships in a row. I am very eager to see more performances of Speed and Liuzzi, although Speed disapointed me a bit in A1GP

[Louis B.]

Hi Knowlesy,

We almost agree this time (this is probably the best we will ever do).

Predictably, you are too forgiving toward JPM. JPM's spinning out on the formation lap (and during the race) disqualifies him from your tier no3. On the other hand, Massa doesn't deserve to be put in the dissapointment and unnoticeable category. He made mistakes but he is just starting with ferrari and he has already been doing better than Rubens in terms of lap time differential with MS.

We would have a deal if you were putting both JPM and Massa in tier number 4 with the others. You are also a bit too harsh with Fisico.

[Knowlesy]

Err....predictably forgiving with Button? He ain't one of my favourites Louis, so put away that nationalistic tag now!

And does Michael Schumacher's collision on installation lap and spin out under safety car (on the same day in Shanghai 05!) rule him out of tier 2 then? No it doesn't, so JPM remains in my Tier 3.

Of course, you're not obliged to agree with this!

[Knowlesy]

In fairness Louis, I see you've edited your post.....

[Louis B.]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Err....predictably forgiving with Button? He ain't one of my favourites Louis, so put away that nationalistic tag now! !

I removed the reference to Button even before you mentionned it. As I was drafting my post, I remembered his excellent performance in Australia. Other than that, I acknowledge that he is been good in qualyfying but I haven't been impressed by his race performance other than at Melbourne.

Originally Posted by knowlesy

And does Michael Schumacher's collision on installation lap and spin out under safety car (on the same day in Shanghai 05!) rule him out of tier 2 then? No it doesn't, so JPM remains in my Tier 3.

I thought we were rating the drivers on the basis of their performance so far in 2006. Despite one DNF and a lacklustre race in Imola, Kimi is nevertheless ahead of JPM in the world championship race. If that might help striking a "deal", you could put both Kimi and JPM in tier no.4 insofar as I am concerned.

[Knowlesy]

*sigh*

[Louis B.]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

*sigh*

or, even better, you could elevate MW, NH, JV and RS to level no. 3 with JPM and Kimi.

[luke]

1) Alonso
1.5) M.Schumacher
2.5) Raikkonen
3) Montoya
4) Button
5) Rosberg
7) Webber
8) Barrichello
9) Heidfeld / Villeneuve / Klein
10) Fisichella / R.Schumacher & Trulli - Can be very quick on their day and when they are they are the quickest but not consistent enough.

[ASCII Man]

1. Alonso
2. Kimi
3. TGF
4. Button
5. Montoya
6. Rosberg
7. Webber
8. Villeneuve
9. Heidfeld
10. Fisichella

[dcp2685]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Tier 1: Fernando Alonso

Tier 2: M Schumacher
Tier 3: Kimi Raikkonen/Juan Pablo Montoya/Jenson Button

Tier 4: Mark Webber/Ralf Schumacher/Nico Rosberg/Nick Heidfeld/Jacques Villeneuve/Christian Klien -

Tier 5:Takuma Sato/Vitantonio Liuzzi/Scott Speed/David Coulthard

Tier dissapointment and unnoticable: Giancarlo Fisichella/Jarno Trulli/Felipe Massa/Rubens Barrichello

Tier crap: Yuji Ide

I think we havent' seen enough of the KR and JPM battle yet. JPM out qualifited him 3 - 1 so far, kimi has 2 podiums to JPM's 1, each have 1 DNF. (JPMS was electrical problem where the McLaren was VERY strong.) JPM seems to be finding his feet there.

I'd have it as this.

Tier 1: Fernando Alonso - Because unless the teams up their game, it's game over next race if he wins.

Tier 2: M Schumacher/Kimi Raikkonen/Juan Pablo Montoya - This year, all these will challenge for race wins, seems to me Alonso will win more and finish w/ more podiums than either of these.

Tier 3: Mark Webber/Jenson Button/Nick Heidfeld/Jacques Villeneuve Webber is driving the wheels off that thing. Shame about Australia....looked very strong. NH, JV, CK, all look like good for what they've got.

Tier 4: Ralf Schumacher/Nico Rosberg/Christian Klien/David Coulthard - Ralf, good showing in Australia and some decent results. Nico, GREAT debut, but has kinda fizzled. CK and DC....eh ok. Klein by a hair here.

Tier 5:Takuma Sato/Vitantonio Liuzzi/Scott Speed - TS, debut for SA and only 3/4 laps down at the end of the race w/ a car that's 4 years old? I'd put him up in #4, but....resaults and showing are just that. The others, doing ok for what they've got.

Tier dissapointment and unnoticable: Giancarlo Fisichella/Jarno Trulli/Felipe Massa/Rubens Barrichello - OYE!

Total "get your cowboy boots because the crap is too thick" crap: Yuji Ide

[Bononi]

1. Alonso
2. Kimi
3. TGF
4. Button
5. Montoya
6. Rosberg
7. Webber
8. Villeneuve
9. Heidfeld
10. Fisichella

Ditto.

[Notso Swift]

Of Course the real answer is:

1 Fernando Alonso Spanish Renault 36

2 Michael Schumacher German Ferrari 21

3 Kimi Räikkönen Finnish McLaren-Mercedes 18

4 Giancarlo Fisichella Italian Renault 15

4= Juan Pablo Montoya Colombian McLaren-Mercedes 15

6 Jenson Button British Honda 13

7 Felipe Massa Brazilian Ferrari 9

8 Ralf Schumacher German Toyota 7

9 Mark Webber Australian Williams-Cosworth 6

10 Nick Heidfeld German Sauber-BMW 5

10= Jacques Villeneuve Canadian Sauber-BMW 5

12 Rubens Barrichello Brazilian Honda 2

12= Nico Rosberg German Williams-Cosworth 2

14 David Coulthard British RBR-Ferrari 1

14= Christian Klien Austrian RBR-Ferrari 1

Results are what count
Most of you have severely over rated Nico, the kid is good, and he will be top tier, but he is still being blooded in. Over rated Button, no surprises there
Under rated Fisi, yes he runs hot an cold, but he is Italian! And under rated Massa, the first race was crap, and he was taken out in Aus, but he has driven similar to where Rubens would have otherwise, and Rubens had been there for a long time

[Marbot]

The above results probably have more to do with car performance rather than driver performance.

[rocketracer]

true there notso, but the fun of the thread was about which drivers have form at the moment regardless of the car they are in (and hence the points they are able to score)....

though i agree mostly with your comments with regards to the drivers... nico has shown glimpses of good form and will undoubtedly become a sensation in years to come, but surely all would agree he is being outraced by webber at the moment, and so therefore webber in better form deserves the higher ranking...

massa was quick at sauber but has adapted extremely well so far after 4 races - think of JPM last year, who took a long time to get used to the car and is only really doing so now (he's said this himself), most top line drivers do have these problems these days adjusting, but massa is on or above rubens pace from word go (he has the disadvantage of being compared to TGF...) and will only get better IMO...

[hgmonaro]

Originally Posted by rocketracer

though i agree mostly with your comments with regards to the drivers... nico has shown glimpses of good form and will undoubtedly become a sensation in years to come, but surely all would agree he is being outraced by webber at the moment, and so therefore webber in better form deserves the higher ranking...

not on the Internet!

[Notso Swift]

Originally Posted by hgmonaro

not on the Internet!

Yes, and on this site Button is a definate World Champion, but I don't see it with Honda in the next 3-4 or even 5 years
What I was trying to say is that I think most drivers are performing to thier expectations, based on previous years, the exceptions are highlighted by the results, in particualr Rubens and Trulli
Are MS and FM equal no, but no one expects them to be! FM has performed to breif. Ferarri could have had held Rubens, but they knew it would be better to have Massa, and he has done just what they expect. (Right down to slowing FA at Imola) The fact is 100% for Massa is only 95% for Michael.
Are FA and GF Equal, on GF's day he is as good, but GF has always proven to be... well Italian! Somedays she works, others, no so good.

So Martin, I do not think the results are truly reflective of Car only. Car and team definatly have a significant effect, but otherwise we would see 1+2 Renault, 3+4 McLaren 5+6 Honda 7+8 Ferarri 9+10 Williams 11+12 Toyota and so on.

[chunterer]

Good thread, and thanks for the ref Rocketracer!

I think, Dan, dcp and Luke aren't far away from my listing.

However my perspectives are ALWAYS based on racers/hardchargers/basic talent (delete as appropriate) over time rather than any restrictions that might be placed on them by team politics/current equipment etc...

As rocketracer kindly pointed out that I said in the Fizzi thread, to my mind there are 4 drivers clear of everyone else.

This is because of the talent they were born with, their ability to do something special at anytime that will light up a race, their overtaking ability (opportunism/craftiness?) and that special ingredient.

However there are several others who could still enter that group in time (or replace the top four should they retire anytime soon?!) if those drivers start to impress regularly or get some decent results regularly.

Division One:
Alonso - has MS's maturity and JPM's spontaneity combined
Kimi - ridiculously fast
Schuey - conmsummate pro and knows every trick in the book
JPM - because on a given day he'll beat anyone hands down (and sometimes threatens to do it consistently)

(About 10-15 years ago I would've struggled to limit this top Division to double that many drivers!!)

Div 2:
Button - gives us flashes of what might be, but is fading by the day
Fizzi - didn't think he would end up like this but is looking like joining long list of Latin talents who can't stay totally on the pace
Webber - so solid and just needs the car imo
Massa - similar to JPM but ain't as clever
Nico - has arrived with a bang but seems to have tapered off a little
Rubens - Good pro but always a nearly man
DC - ditto
Ralf - just can't fathom him too hot and cold
Trulli- ditto
JV - as much as i used to rave about him, he's seen the best of his days
Heidfeld - still can't help but think he might have achieved simialr to Kimi if McLaren signed him instead - but we'll never know. A good pro and knows his way around an F1 car.

Div 3:
Liuzzi - will jump straight to near top of 2 with a decent car
Klien - overrated
Speed - seems solid and will be around for few years without doing anything spectacular
Monteiro- think he could be a solid div 2 guy in a half decent car.
Albers - not just saying this because he's in a Midland but I haven't seen enough when at Minardi to think he's got the potential of a Webber/Alonso.
Sato
Ide

Hope I haven't been too harsh on people's favourites but I reckon it's a balanced view overall?

(Holds hands over head and awaits barrage of torpedoes)