Is there a future for BAR?

PoweredByHonda · 14 Jun 2001, 18:34 (Ref:105218)

What will happen to BAR next year?
They no longer have a limitless pocket and is in the danger of losing Honda and Villeneuve.

Quino · 14 Jun 2001, 18:44 (Ref:105220)

Being a team fundementaly backed by tabacco, they are certainly not on the bright side of things. Even more so when it seems Honda wants to back out of their contract (is this performance based). As for now, BAR is linked with an Asiatech deal, who are also linked to Prost and reported being out for a stake in a F1 team (so maybe they'll buy out Prost's share and co-own with Diniz). BAR looked to be built upon Villeneuve, but since most of us have forgotten about his worldchampion-status, so has BAR, and Panis is given a fair chance to chase or even lead the Canadian.
Allthough it still looks like Pollock's confidence is owned by Villeneuve.

Their chassis is basicaly rubbish. They're engine however is good, and so are both of their drivers. 2 out of three aint bad, but when those other 2 factors are in danger of continuation. BAR certainly has plenty to worry about.

Emfa · 14 Jun 2001, 18:45 (Ref:105221)

The general concensus around here seems to be that they will be bought by Honda and become a factory team. This has been discussed at some length on other threads here. It will be interesting to see what ends up happening (and when and how).

economy_waffle · 14 Jun 2001, 19:20 (Ref:105234)

well if BAT and Honda pull out (which it looks like they inevitably will) then who will supply engines bcos villeneuve will NOT drive for a crappy ar with a crappy engine like in 99. the question now is: "who will join F1 - engine wise?"

Run Free · 14 Jun 2001, 22:40 (Ref:105294)

Quote:

Originally posted by Quino
Panis is given a fair chance to chase or even lead the Canadian.
Allthough it still looks like Pollock's confidence is owned by Villeneuve.

C'mon , Panis is a good driver but nothing more. Judging from how many times Villeneuve's car has broked down, and Panis' car HAS NOT, it seems that someone at BAR is boycotting Villeneuve, and that has a logic being him co-owner of that team, whose political gremlins have hampered its progress just from the start.

When Villeneuve has not had problems with the car, he has always beated Panis; BTW, is ahead of him in the point's standings.

One thing is for sure: Villeneuve made the worst possible decision to join is "friend" in that *rap team!

Minardi fan · 14 Jun 2001, 22:45 (Ref:105296)

Honda will buy them out within two seasons.

The chassis must be a dog - the drivers seem to seriously struggle with it, and the Jordan is much faster.

**Bononi** · 14 Jun 2001, 22:50 (Ref:105299)

Honda will buy BAR.

Good for BAR.

Bad for Jordan.

Valve Bounce · 14 Jun 2001, 23:57 (Ref:105339)

Quote:

Originally posted by Minardi fan
Honda will buy them out within two seasons.

The chassis must be a dog - the drivers seem to seriously struggle with it, and the Jordan is much faster.

This thread is well worth keeping. We should rescusitate it every time it gets into the second page and bring it up again. I thought that Honda will buy it out at the end of this year.
Maybe BAR should engage the services of Adrian Newey to give that chassis a new lease of life, or give them a new chassis.
Instead of just working for McLaren, Newey should run a consultancy and design chassis for all the lessor teams (for oodles of cash, of course).

Nicholas · 15 Jun 2001, 06:25 (Ref:105401)

Quote:

Originally posted by Quino
As for now, BAR is linked with an Asiatech deal...

Where did you read this? It can't possibly be true, why would BAR want to get rid of Honda? Their contract lasts until the end of next year and trying to get an AMT deal would sound like self-destruction for the team, since JV would probably leave ASAP.

Quote:

Allthough it still looks like Pollock's confidence is owned by Villeneuve.

More of the other way round, I think. It's quite well known that one of the main reasons why JV re-signed with BAR was because of his good friend Craig.

Red · 15 Jun 2001, 07:21 (Ref:105409)

Quote:

Originally posted by Quino
Being a team fundementaly backed by tabacco, they are certainly not on the bright side of things

I beg to disagree. I believe that BAR is the only team on the bright side of the road (considering tobacco money) and BAT will be the only tobacco company to have advertising.

Quino · 15 Jun 2001, 07:22 (Ref:105410)

In an article about Prost and Asiatech, there was also a mention about BAR hintinf for such a deal. I'm not quite sure where I got the article from. I'd have to check.

As for Pollock, it seems he has built his team around a certain Villeneuve. I'd like to see him manage a team without Villeneuve. I'm still not convinced he'll manage.

Quino · 15 Jun 2001, 07:24 (Ref:105411)

Even if tabaccoadvertising will be banned all together?
Even Ferrari has commited itself to Vodafone to be sure of a non-tabacco major sponsor.

Red · 15 Jun 2001, 07:25 (Ref:105412)

Yep, especially after that. Everybody knows what BAR stands for

ireshad · 15 Jun 2001, 10:24 (Ref:105438)

well, despite the "general consensus", I'd just like tro reiterate my view that if Honda drops one team it will be BAR. The reasons?

1. Honda already went down the road of their own team. And abandoned it, having spent considerable amounts in the process. I cannot see Honda sanctioning another multi million pound payout for BAR.

2. If Honda drops one team they will have to substantially compensate them. BARs contract runs out next year, Jordans the year after. Whichever way you look at it, it will be more expensive to drop Jordan.

3. Honda are an engine manufacturer (yeah I know, stating the obvious etc etc). What they need is a team with good chassis building experience and organisational ability. Both of these things point to Jordan over and above BAR.

4. Jordan is now probably the better financed of the two since BAT basically pulled the financing. BAR was a bit too reliant on the sugerdaddy approach, and is too large and unwieldy for its position.

4. Look at the side deals being done. Honda wanted a F1 partner for he powerboat side. The boat is now outfitted as a Jordan. The wanted similar for the superbike promotion side, and there is now a Jordan Something-or-other bike.

Scottie · 15 Jun 2001, 10:51 (Ref:105441)

I believe that Honda will buy out BAR. Aren't Honda engineers working on the BAR chassis this year. This would certainly give them a heads-up in converting that dog into a competitive chassis. Another point that is often overlooked is team ownership. A lot has been reported about BAT wanting to sell out. On the other hand, I have NEVER ever heard Eddie Jordan even hint about selling. I have read many articles about Eddie, and I think his racing team is his life. I can't imagine him selling and seeing the team being renamed.
No, Team Jordan will be around for many years after Team Honda races it's next Grand Prix as a full works team.
JMHO

ireshad · 15 Jun 2001, 11:03 (Ref:105444)

Quote:

Originally posted by Scottie
Aren't Honda engineers working on the BAR chassis this year. This would certainly give them a heads-up in converting that dog into a competitive chassis. Another point that is often overlooked is team ownership.

Yes, but Honda engineers are also working with Jordan, it doesn't really mean much. As for ownership, I agree completely with you about EJ, and I suspect that BAR will change hands. What I can't see is Honda being the buyer. As I've said, I cannot see Honda throwing yet more money into ownership after their last abortive attempt. Also Honda have a bit of a tradition of coming into F1 proving a point and pulling out. Do they really want to then be saddled with a load of ex-BAR staff?

Scottie · 15 Jun 2001, 11:12 (Ref:105446)

I realise that Honda engineers are working with Jordan, but I think they are working only on the engine side, whereas they are working on both the engine and chassis at BAR.

Valve Bounce · 15 Jun 2001, 12:27 (Ref:105461)

Quote:

Originally posted by ireshad

Also Honda have a bit of a tradition of coming into F1 proving a point and pulling out. Do they really want to then be saddled with a load of ex-BAR staff?

Ireshad, I would thoroughly recommend you get a copy of the April Motor Sport, the one with the free & fantastic Video tape of the racing Auto Unions. On top of that, there is a very touching story of the shortest career ever in F1 of Jo Schlesser, who drove the ill fated awful Honda air cooled V8 magnesium-chassised RA302 which spelled Hondas doom in F1 at Rouen in 1968.
No Honda didn't prove a point and then pulled out of F1; says John Surtees:" The episode of that car and the accident brought Hondas Formula One programme to an end. The fact that (the RA302) didn't work meant there weren't the resources to go back to what (the V12) we were originally going to do."
Soichiro Honda lost face big time, and you must know Asians to understand what this means. Honda must go into F1 in the name of Honda, and they must beat Toyota. Not to do so would make life not worth living for Honda himself.

Nicholas · 15 Jun 2001, 12:29 (Ref:105463)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
I beg to disagree. I believe that BAR is the only team on the bright side of the road (considering tobacco money) and BAT will be the only tobacco company to have advertising.

Do you mean that BAT would still be able to sponsor BAR, except with a "Lucky Tribe" or "Lookalike" logo instead of "Lucky Strike?"

Red · 15 Jun 2001, 12:51 (Ref:105472)

A ban for tobacco-ads was nothing new yet a major company decides not to sposor a team, but to become very much involved! And that only several years before that ban becomes active! Hmmm...

Consider this: you’re a BAR supporter and also a smoker. What brand do you chose? I think that the company who owns a large part of your favorite team is the most sensible choice even though the car has not a “Lucky-Strike” painted on it’s sidepods. By the way, if BAR keeps Honda engines (most likely) that big red circle on a white sidepod will most probably stay as it is Japan’s flag.

Of course, all of the above only if Honda does not buy BAR altogether by then.

ireshad · 15 Jun 2001, 12:59 (Ref:105479)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Consider this: you’re a BAR supporter and also a smoker. What brand do you chose?

Well I'm a Jordan supporter, and smoke Silk Cut.

Although B&H might actually own SC, I'm not sure.

Red · 15 Jun 2001, 13:00 (Ref:105481)

Yeah, but I'm a Ferrari supporter and smoke Marlboro

ireshad · 15 Jun 2001, 13:04 (Ref:105483)

Quote:

Originally posted by Valve Bounce

No Honda didn't prove a point and then pulled out of F1; says John Surtees:" The episode of that car and the accident brought Hondas Formula One programme to an end. The fact that (the RA302) didn't work meant there weren't the resources to go back to what (the V12) we were originally going to do."
Soichiro Honda lost face big time, and you must know Asians to understand what this means. Honda must go into F1 in the name of Honda, and they must beat Toyota. Not to do so would make life not worth living for Honda himself.

I'll accept your facts on that era, I don't know that much about it prior to about the mid 80s. However I have one quibble with the Soichiro Honda end of things. If that is true, then why did Honda abandon their own team originally, basically citing financial reasons (as well as other more tragic ones). What has changed in the meantime that Honda is now willing to throw even more money at F1, then if they had just stayed in to begin with.

Nicholas · 15 Jun 2001, 15:25 (Ref:105519)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
A ban for tobacco-ads was nothing new yet a major company decides not to sposor a team, but to become very much involved! And that only several years before that ban becomes active! Hmmm...

So basically, BAT will still be able to remain in F1 with a "red circle" paint job...

Red · 15 Jun 2001, 15:27 (Ref:105520)

No.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Future Changes	mabs_nsx	Formula One	68	13 Aug 2005 13:06
The Future.........????	AndyF	National & Club Racing	54	4 Jul 2003 23:41
Future Tourer Future	Crash Test	Australasian Touring Cars.	13	17 Jul 2002 23:01
What is the future?	Midge	Marshals Forum	2	23 Jun 2002 20:55