too Many series & Too many clubs

[ss_collins]

Time for me to get all controversial again. We all know there are too many series in the UK but are there also too many clubs.

Do we really need the BRSCC, BARC & the 750MC?

I suggest that at least one of the big three should go - If it were to be reduced to just two 'big' clubs perhaps a lot of series would go and grids grow. Maybe clubs like the MG lot and AMOC should be encouraged to run their races on existing bills unless its a major event (like MG Silverstone)

[Mike Holmes]

Why would MGCC want to run races on Existing bills? They have enough races to fill their own meetings with good grids? Outside of the dreaded British GP, MGCC Silverstone is one of the bigger meetings they have at the circuit. I think the ones you should be looking at are the clubs that put on races with 6 or 7 entries.

[archibold]

Maybe what is required is more competition not less in this area. The clubs that can attract strong grids (e.g. 750mc), large numbers of members and pay for the track hire will prosper while the others will be weaned out over time.

Just a thought ?!

[rbs]

I do not see a problem with any of the clubs mentioned. All are putting on meetings that are usually well supported.Some formulas have been a little thin this year but nothing to drastic.Some one will name all the poor fields later.
What we do not need is new clubs coming along and promising the world but fail to deliver.These clubs just dilute entries away from other meetings.

I do think that clubs should only be allowed to organise one meeting on any weekend unless it is of a different disclipline.
The BARC for instance could organise one race and one hillclimb on any weekend.
This would mean that the events would have more marshals as there would be less venues to man.

[chezza]

I have seen lots of poor grids this season, unfortunatley I can't remember most of them though!

I know that the 750mc Hot hatch grid was fairly small this season, however they have changed the regs for next season to allow more cars to enter.

I think that we have too many series of a similar nature and so maybe some should be amalagamated so that there are larger grids. After all thats what people want to see.

Sam think your wrong about the MGCC, they have enough series and big enough grid to fill the meetings that they have, why should they be made to run with other clubs?

I think you have a good point there rbs. Clubs should only be allowed to organise one meeting per weekend. However you fall into difficulties with this due to the different centres that BARC and BRSCC have.

[Al Weyman]

More Flexibility from all involved will help.

[Andrew Gunnell]

The problem is not that there are too many clubs. But that the MSA keep giving out too many permits for championship which have a lack of support and has small grids.

[gixxer]

Don't think there's too many clubs in the uk

but do agree there are too many series with small grids
like the tuscans and nat fford and caterham r400

it was about time that time was called on all series that can't cut the mustard,at least 16 on the grid!

at least tvr and caterham have made steps in the right direction,

there should be a three strike system,if grids fall below 16 three times then a yellow card is issued

another three and a red card is issued and the series is canned!

[topwelshman]

Originally posted by gixxer

there should be a three strike system,if grids fall below 16 three times then a yellow card is issued

another three and a red card is issued and the series is canned!

a Harsh but fair way of weeding out the ****! Every series has it ups & downs but there are some that when they have their biggest grids of the year only get 15 cars out! These should be canned and more race time given to thise that can bring bigger grids. It would be good to see alot of series merge and have full grids at every event and then have more track time

[Tim Falce]

Sam, what is your obsession with getting rid of clubs and race series. The fewer clubs and series there are the higher the prices will go until only the select few can afford to race, or is that what you want?

[Simon Mason]

I like the card system. Very good idea although I'd work off 2 races not 3.

The race organising companies whoops sorry .....clubs, are fine if a little soft when it comes to weeding out waste of space series. These should be mixed together like it or not until they either grow, die ot stagnate, leaving behind exciting series that do the same thing as the dead wood but apeal to more people. Just as it should be.

[graeme]

BARC (and probably BRSCC, though I don't have much contact) are way too soft with canning/amalgamating series. 750MC have a much better system and don't seem to take any ****. It seems this year (and every year...) that the under performing series say "we'll try this next year" (usually how to nab drivers from other series!) and then they still have poor grids. As for binning series increasing costs - its us drivers in series which actively try to keep numbers up which are paying for the poor turn-out series. A top tip - STOP SPENDING MONEY ON HOSPITALITY TENTS AND PUT SOME IN TO GETTING MORE DRIVERS OUT! ...and relax...

[Piglet]

Let's just move this concept on, you get rid of one of what you describe as the big three, then you've only got two main clubs. Then what if one of those clubs, for some reason fails - the money runs out, it's decided that there is no money in running race meetings, whatever. Then you've only got one primary organising club who have a monopoly over club and national racing in the UK. That is not a scenario that I would want to work within.

[ss_collins]

falce there are far too many races in this country - the number needs to be reduced drastically. I'm just speculating really - not slating the AMOC or MGCC lot - just speculating on possible solutions.

Perhaps then there could be uniformity between the clubs on certain things.

[gixxer]

As stated above the big three will at some time or other have problems with one or to championships.
It just means someone has to have the balls and say enough's enough.
The super coupe cup has the best idea giving a wide range of cars somewhere to race and giving spectators what they want and thats full grids.
hopefully 2005 will be different its time to get tuff
back the best,help the good get better and weed out the rubbish,
come on brscc,brdc,barc you know you can!?

[Tracey]

Have to say I agree that some championships should be chopped. Who can honestly say they enjoy having any involvement in races with only a handful of cars? However, MGCC must never stop running it's own meetings - I love the whole package they have, being an MG nut, and they do merge championships into one race if numbers are low, and examine reorganising/restructuring to boost grids where necessary. They also look after us marshals!

I do think some big clubs who are paid to run a series/championship need to decide if they exist for the good of the sport of for the money, for example T-Cars pay a fortune for less than ten cars to race, Formula Woman entries I believe were capped to 16. What does that prove?

[Al Weyman]

Three strikes and you are out is OK unless you happen to own a car in one of these series that are suddenly struck out and the car can not be raced anywhere else and you have a few grands worth of race car on your hands that all you can do is use for trackdays or break.

[ss_collins]

250+ series in the UK... far far too many.

[greenamex2]

Series should be merged not chopped unless there are already other very similar series that they can easily move too.

Fortunately with the likes of the BRSCC and 750MC rewriting their various series rules every year to allow more and more cars in the chances of finding another series that you can fit in is now quite high.

Funny, I thought part of the point of the MSA championship board was to ensure that there were no duplicate or near duplicate championships. How in gods name can you come up with over 250 significantly different variations on a vehicle with four wheels, an engine and at least one seat?

That will be vested interest rearing it's ugly head again.

[Al Weyman]

Easy Dennis by waiving money around. A lot of these are born from one make championships that were originally manufacturer backed, take all those Renault championships down the years for example. What on earth is to be gained by still running one make challenges featuring cars that have been out of production for years. Aother example Maestro racing, do they still do it? Why? it always was a horrible ugly car and I know they get (or did I am a bit out of touch)good grids but what a horrible thing to watch and as for 2CV racing give me strength I would rather watch paint dry absolutely the most boring racing I have ever witnessed. This sort of low cost stuff is strickly for the drivers pleasure only and is not the way to encourage the public spectator to the circuits.

Oh and Dennis were you in Mod Prods when I was racing (89 - 97), is so and you have any results sheets showing me completing a race please let me know as I need these to reapply for my licence. I have enough at the moment but these are from the 80's and early 90's and some later ones would be ice.

[Chris Y]

Originally posted by Al Weyman
What on earth is to be gained by still running one make challenges featuring cars that have been out of production for years.

Easy answer right there - they're cheap to get hold of, and cheap to get the parts. Seems odd that you ask, considering the age of car you are intending to race. If there was a one make challenge for your car, and you had good grids, I'm sure you'd enter?

Aother example Maestro racing, do they still do it? Why? it always was a horrible ugly car and I know they get (or did I am a bit out of touch)good grids but what a horrible thing to watch and as for 2CV racing give me strength I would rather watch paint dry absolutely the most boring racing I have ever witnessed.

Hmm. I race a Maestro occasionally, and a 2CV. I'll try and answer those two questions. The Maestro may be considered ugly (it was considered cutting edge in the '80s, but lots of things from the '80s are now considered ugly), but it does handle rather well in race trim. Coupled with the aforementioned cost situation, and the fact that the cars create very close racing still makes this a very attractive championship. That's why there's still loads of them out there. Spectator-wise, they do provide a good spectactle - quite often full grids, close racing, and a bit of argy-bargy - they always entertain on the track.

2CV racing usually is quite exiting to watch actually, but it depends on the track. If they get spread out, then it does tend to look a little dull, but again quite often there's lots of close racing to be had - the nature of the cars (lack of) speed lends well to slipstreaming and late-braking overtaking. Of course, you'll always get the detractors, because of the image of the 2CV, but quite a few people have changed their opinions of 2CVs after watching the racing.

As for the competitors, again the cars provide a challenge. With very little power, they require you to maintain momentum and carry speed through corners properly. Not exactly 'point and squirt'

I also race a Mini, in a one make championship. The car's been out of production for 5 years now - does that invalidate the racing? Should all the Mini racers just pack up and go and buy something more modern? Of course not.

Anyway, opinions will always differ, and I guess tastes will too, but my point here is - not everyone can afford to race exotic machinery - don't be so quick to belittle other peoples' chosen championships.

[greenamex2]

Sorry Al, I was sprinting then Super Road Saloons back then.

[ss_collins]

Not slating either series here (in fact as you'll see in my profile I raced in one of these) but i cannot understand why there is a Ford saloon challenge and an XR challenge - why on earth don't these run together??

[PenelopePitstop]

Hi,

To follow the argument through to entries and support.

I have a 1.6 M.G. Maestro, which I race in the M.G. Car Clur Enduro races. Without the extream value for money offered by the M.G.C.C. and the very underated M.G. Maestro, I would be racing lawn mowers, I also know of competitors in the hugeley entertaining Drayton Manor Park M.G. Metro Cup who would be racing mowers or on a play station without this series, we all also help out with the Club/Championship and on ocasions marshall. There is a very sound reason for running the other M.G.C.C. championships (If you want me to bore you with them I could).I don't understand why you would want to lose this ,I don't and would invest a lot of energy into making sure it we did'nt.

[pitcrew]

We need one govening body to take all the clubs under its wing and then direct and organize all of the classes and tweak the grids, etc
just needs tidying up!
dont need to stop people competing just refine everything