race or rally a 1972 merc Saloon?

guydewdney · 15 Dec 2003, 11:44 (Ref:812082)

Hi guys,

done a bit of searching, but couldn't see any threads relating to my Q.

I have a 1972 2.8 litre straight 6 SOHC carb (twin zeniths...) mercedes "250" W114. Its pretty worthless as a restored car (like 1500 - 2K in perfect nick). It has a few significant dents etc, and the paint is faded badly.

I have been looking at some options - I cant bear to see it scrapped, so i thought I'd do somthing more interesting with it.

I have two basic options as far as I can see. 1) Post historic racing 2) rallying.

racing seems to be a lot cheaper, and allows me more freedom to lighten / modify it. Less chance (!) of damage that would write it off.

The question is - would it be even vaguely competative? Im into the 2 litre to 4 litre class - so somthing like a P6 3500 is in my class - I believe that I can get a reliable 180 - 190 brake quite easily (std is 140, but its very stangled by intake and exhaust and low compression), and std weight is 1400Kg - but being a merc I reckon I can lose quite a lot of soundproofing / toys / dash / seats weight.. I believe the multi-link front suspension and semi-trailing arm rear suspension is more refined than somthing like a P6, thus better handling.

Or am I having a laugh?

Or is there a series thats better? Some sort of endurance racing?

Thanks (first post..)

Guy

Slowcoach · 16 Dec 2003, 10:54 (Ref:812958)

Hello Guy - welcome to the forum. I can remember seeing Mercs rallying in the seventies - didn't it do the Safari rallys etc? However I don't ever remember seeing one racing....personally if it were me I'd go for the post historic racing (with the CTCRC), but then I am biased as I am a member. I know you would be very welcome especially as it would be a rare sight racing. You're right about your class competitor but there would also be the mark I capris and they are quick, although the Rover won the class by some margin. The thing to remember though is that there is always someone to race against even if they aren't in your class. When I started with my big engined car I had some wonderful dices with the smaller engined, more expertly driven cars. You seem determined to save the car - which is great, so really it comes down to whether you want to be door to door with other cars of the same era or piling through a forest in the mud against the clock. My preference is the former. As to which is cheaper, I don't know how much a rally costs but our races are about £150 a go, and depending on your driving style I tend to agree with you about the damage aspect.
I can't think of many other series that you'd be eligible for although I think there is a fledgling 70's saloon class within the HSCC. For endurance racing you really need to be in something pre 1966. Best of luck and hope to see you out at a circuit sometime next year !

Hobson · 17 Dec 2003, 10:18 (Ref:813834)

And, theres Peter Holten's P6 already in Post Historic CTCRC....

www.csccgb.co.uk

Hobson · 17 Dec 2003, 10:19 (Ref:813835)

Heres the Championship final tally, its an indication to the competiton you would face, Guy.

http://www.csccgb.co.uk/pages/points/2003/2.htm

guydewdney · 17 Dec 2003, 12:02 (Ref:813924)

Specification 1967 Rover 3.5 litre
Engine V8, 3528cc
Power 160bhp @ 5200 rpm
Transmission 3 speed automatic
Chassis Unitary construction
Suspension Independent front, rear live axle
Brakes Disc front, drum rear
Top speed 180 km/h
Acceleration 0-96 km/h: 10.7 s
Dimensions

merc 140 - 157 bhp depending on who you listen to

independant front and rear suspension
discs all round
similar top speed
similar acceleration.

time to get the angle grinder out i think...

carrera · 18 Dec 2003, 16:21 (Ref:815343)

Hello Guy. I'm also a Classic Touring Car Racing Club member and have this year been campaigning a car not known for its racing prowess, a Citroen BX. As Slowcoach states, there is usually someone around to have a race with whatever the car.
A one hour race is usually held at Pembrey for the CTCRC racers.

josvandeperre · 18 Dec 2003, 17:08 (Ref:815388)

Quote:

Originally posted by guydewdney

time to get the angle grinder out i think...

Except CSCC do not really allow lightening or removal of interior - soundproofing is another story and can be very heavy...nonetheless a different type of car would be great and based on what you've mentioned should be competitive

graham bahr · 18 Dec 2003, 19:30 (Ref:815464)

how much help will you have? to rally you will need a navagator and some help in the paddock, i know at least a couple of guys who started racing because they didn't have a crew they could rely on. quite a few circuit racers dont have any kind of pit crew at all.

guydewdney · 18 Dec 2003, 19:45 (Ref:815476)

.5 Chassis:

5.5.1 Lightening or reducing of chassis strength is prohibited.

5.6 Bodywork:

5.6.1 Bodywork must be complete and standard in shape, material and thickness on all exterior surfaces.

key words I picked up on here (im a letter not spirit man

) are CHASSIS and EXTERIOR

thus things like interior door metalwork (of which there is quite a lot in a merc) spare wheel holders, brackets, trim (LOADS)...

i shoudl stop yabbering and get on with it shouldn't I really

guydewdney · 18 Dec 2003, 19:56 (Ref:815481)

im the pit crew... the fiancee is the driver... ulp... And no - i dont have anyone i can really rely on - maybe one - but I dont have the finaces to start paying for other peoples accomodation etc (as my local MS club suggests is the norm)...

well - its a cheap start, and if its fun - maybe ill buy a P6 LOL

C R Box · 19 Dec 2003, 11:28 (Ref:815950)

Guy, the answer you seek is road rallying, ideally in international events that start or are organised in the UK.
The Classic Marathon runs every year, and I have so far done London to San Remo, Cortina and Prague.
You need a driver and navigator with some map reading ability. Cars compete for class and overall trophys.
With road rallying you have to get to checkpoints on time. Big Mercs are widely used as they handle well, are durable and luggage can easily be carried.
There is a social side in the evenings as well as a balls out 250-300 mile road race(just kidding folks) during the day.
The event is usually about 5 days long and your car needs to be pre '74, reliable with a 200 mile minimum
range. A bit of grunt and some nifty navigation could see you presented with the novice cup this September - in Norway!

TimD · 30 Dec 2003, 21:50 (Ref:823912)

Just curious - I've no records at all of anyone circuit racing a W114 type Mercedes saloon. Believe me, I've looked for them, chiefly because I own a Mercedes 220 (W115-series). Does the lack of any race history when the type was current affect series eligibility as far as the CTCRC is concerned?

Certainly there are plenty of W114 280s which took part in big rallies in the early seventies, but a circuit racer would look highly distinctive.

Guy, if you do go ahead and lighten the car for racing, do let me know - I might well be able to defray some of your prep costs if the interior trim and ancillaries are going begging....

guydewdney · 31 Dec 2003, 00:12 (Ref:824068)

TimD

if you want a near perfect MBTEX cream interior, then its all yours. It is sad to see it go - but the car is worthless really - my coupe is my tart-up-project... but thats black...

its looking like the sohc engine (130? 180?) is going begging as well - but not yet.

did a bit of research - the m110 MAY run more power on carbs - but weber dont list DCOE's for it - only bolt on replacements for the scary zeniths / solex downdraft things.

any info on M110 (merc 190 series saloon for example) running carbs? google doesnt work too well - 190 is also a 1950s series of merc..

Slowcoach · 31 Dec 2003, 09:11 (Ref:824337)

Hi TimD - lack of race history doesn't affect eligibilty to race in CTCRC as far as I am aware. I believe the main criteria is that there was a production run of 5,000 in any one 12 month period.

bolide · 20 Jan 2004, 23:20 (Ref:844752)

Guy

Vaguely competitive? Probably not - but then most people (and I include myself in this) aren't competitive in their first race car either

A Captain (Captain Kirk = Merc) would be a great thing to race and would have the huge benefit of being unusual. There's a pre-66 silver & blue 300 that appears in the Top Hat series which isn't that quick, but it's reliable and really looks the part

Your biggest problem might be the rollcage. Safety Devices will build you one but it might be cheaper to find someone to build you a one-off for the car. Certainly you'll be able to get more power from the engine, and lose some weight, but learning to drive it properly, setting it up and getting gear ratios right will gain you more time than engine tuning

I say put the car on a diet, get it down to the homologated weight and go racing! You'll never regret it!

Nick Froome
www.bolide.co.uk

guydewdney · 21 Jan 2004, 06:43 (Ref:845033)

so - would i be better off scrapping it and getting an SL of similr vintage - with the 3.8L engine in it (380 SL 1971 on - its the early squarish one) like this http://home.pages.at/therock/Modelle/R107/R107_ag.JPG

but even in a scarppy these are like 2K

Slowcoach · 21 Jan 2004, 11:40 (Ref:845309)

-Well I doubt the SL would be eligable for 'saloon' car racing - and I doubt it would get in CTCRC, although you could probably do 70's roadsports.

guydewdney · 21 Jan 2004, 20:47 (Ref:845862)

70's roadsports??

wassat then

ss_collins · 21 Jan 2004, 21:06 (Ref:845882)

rally it! try the HRCR

guydewdney · 21 Jan 2004, 22:22 (Ref:845998)

at 2.5K per rally? for a little run around ireland?

unless you know different... and I got the wrong end of the stick - I'm not even allowed to advertise on the car to try to keep the costs sensible.... which I see as utterly mad - if I could get my local garage / window company / pub to sponsor me (and many others im sure would) - i would go - but whos going to sponsor me with nothing in return???

ss_collins · 21 Jan 2004, 23:13 (Ref:846063)

Guy - wrong end of the stick by far....
HRCR events are between £50 and well silly money - and everything in between,

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Why not Minardi Merc '04??	Phoenix1	Formula One	37	23 Aug 2003 22:10
New Merc SLR in Sportscars?	danhx	Sportscar & GT Racing	31	20 May 2003 02:34
Merc 196 R at Goodwood	Nordic	Motorsport History	8	22 Mar 2003 03:43
Saloon race car owners ' to race or not race in 2003'	Nissan	National & Club Racing	23	5 Dec 2002 15:33
Merc out?	ghinzani	Formula One	1	2 Sep 2001 16:07