Cost of a Hobby - Don't shout at us

[diz]

I've just received this email from a Northern based driver. It speaks for itself re the cost.
The second part is a suggestion worthy of debate. What are your thoughts?
###################################################
Hi Diz

Just reading M.News whilst having a sarnie and there seems to be a general
undercurrent of telling us drivers off about not making the trip to Brands
Hatch for the inaugural MSV meet. I applaud Mr Palmer for trying to boost
the Southern series (which is basically what the MSV is), but most people
will pick and choose what fits in with the races they had already planned.
(for me NW + SOM selected rounds)

I'm not sure if these people realise how much this hobby costs! I've
entered 3 races in March (SOM/GH + Oulton), paid up all the subs required,
bought a new suit, new tyres, sundries and spent over a grand. I've still
got to get there and run the car and hope I don't damage it. So March
spends on my hobby will be circa £1500 I guess. Come on guys, we've got
other things to spend our money on as well.

Rant over.

Random pondering:

When you race at Oulton, you notice that the same spectators come back time
after time. When you ask why they come, it's because of the FF1600 racing.
So as you know people in the Classic FF fold, how about trying to have a FF
only race day at Oulton! The crowds will flock in (I guess??). I guess the
HFF lads probably won't play (but it's worth asking), but you could have a
Classic, 'A' and 'B' grids, Irish round plus FF2000 or Zetec. Could be
double headers and how about a 'libre' race at the end of the day for
anyone to enter from any of the grids. (FF2000 against a front-running 1600
could be fun!)

Obviously I've no idea how hard it is to actually organise something like
this (probably not easy), but it would certainly be a good day for all if
it happened.

[JohnMiller]

I think he has a very good point Diz re: MSV.

Some people clearly take the view that

* we've offered a top-line prize for the top 3 for the year (thus excluding the 'privateer')

* we've bought in a prize for the "privateer" (a direct quote!) and then give it to a frontrunner with a brand new car (not that I've got anything against him at all)

* it MUST thus be the drivers fault when the entries don't flood in

overall, typical selfish thoughts - I believe that if they thought about it from the drivers view they could have attracted more drivers for the same investment...



Mind you maybe he should cancel his MN subscription to fund Brands outings for the rest of the year?

[JustinDawkins]

If you wanted it to be awarded to a privateer John then there was only a choice of two drivers - one of which crashed on the parade lap! Well three if you count Ed Moore!

[Walshy]

[

Random pondering:

When you race at Oulton, you notice that the same spectators come back time
after time. When you ask why they come, it's because of the FF1600 racing.
So as you know people in the Classic FF fold, how about trying to have a FF
only race day at Oulton! The crowds will flock in (I guess??). I guess the
HFF lads probably won't play (but it's worth asking), but you could have a
Classic, 'A' and 'B' grids, Irish round plus FF2000 or Zetec. Could be
double headers and how about a 'libre' race at the end of the day for
anyone to enter from any of the grids. (FF2000 against a front-running 1600
could be fun!)

Obviously I've no idea how hard it is to actually organise something like
this (probably not easy), but it would certainly be a good day for all if
it happened.[/QUOTE]

I've raised this in the past and it appeared to fall on deaf ears. Currently, both of our top festivals fall within weeks of each other at the end of the year. As good as they are, the norm is cold and wet weather. I suggested a "Formula Ford Summer Spectacular" at Oulton Park. All Formula Ford based. Ideal location for the Irish to come over on the ferries and an ideal location for the Scottish to come down in reasonable time (Brands is a fair trek from North of the Border). This could be put on mid-June or July. A true family event with racing, camping, fun fairs, stalls etc. The sun would pull people out of the houses and even if MSV only charged a gate of say, £10 a car, this would surely be better for them than the current club meeting. Just think of the revenue they would get from food sales alone.

You could argue that we have the "Moose Memorial Trophy Race" at Oulton and it's open to all, but this is not a celebration of all things Formula Ford.

When this was suggested by myself and Diz, nothing was heard since.

With Mr Palmers current interest in Formula Ford, surely this would be something to persue for next year. Even if it fails miserably (which I very much doubt) at least we can say we tried. I personally think it would be a great success though. 2 days racing of pure Formula Ford. A colourful, busy and lively Oulton Park of yesteryear again. And sun, instead of cold and rain.
You could even keep people at the circuit in the evening with a concert or firework display etc......

But this would need to be promoted properly and done right. If you get people through the gate, you have to make them want to come back and I agree with the above quote. Most people taht I have spoke to come to Oulton to watch the single seaters and particulary, the Formula Fords.

A word in the ear of Mr Burns I think Diz.

[JustinDawkins]

Sounds like a good idea Chris

An Oulton Formula Ford Festival then?

[Redracer77]

Originally Posted by diz

I've just received this email from a Northern based driver. It speaks for itself re the cost.
The second part is a suggestion worthy of debate. What are your thoughts?

Random pondering:

When you race at Oulton, you notice that the same spectators come back time
after time. When you ask why they come, it's because of the FF1600 racing.
So as you know people in the Classic FF fold, how about trying to have a FF
only race day at Oulton! The crowds will flock in (I guess??). I guess the
HFF lads probably won't play (but it's worth asking), but you could have a
Classic, 'A' and 'B' grids, Irish round plus FF2000 or Zetec. Could be
double headers and how about a 'libre' race at the end of the day for
anyone to enter from any of the grids. (FF2000 against a front-running 1600
could be fun!)

Obviously I've no idea how hard it is to actually organise something like
this (probably not easy), but it would certainly be a good day for all if
it happened.

I think this would be a good idea, maybe something on the full circuit at Oulton organised by the Anglesey Circuit Club (although not at Anglesey company all set up I guess)

It would need someone to get a date that would fit into all timetables and commitment to hire the circuit off MSV.

With the above in mind then maybe it would be something to think about next year?

[Walshy]

I think so.....

We all know what a good weekend Anglesey is with the sun out and the B-B-Q's in the evening. We could have that at Oulton Park.

I know I would get a massive buzz out of seeing Oulton's Paddock brim full of Formula Fords. Classics, Historics, Pre and Post 90's and Zetec's even.

Seriously, how cool would that be. We haven't even mentioned joey foreigner yet. They could get to the circuit easily from Hull port.

This could be a big big event. TV the lot. And Mr Palmer could take all the credit. I won't even ask for comission. Unless he felt he needed to give me something and then out of manners, I would have to accept.

[diz]

Originally Posted by Redracer77

I think this would be a good idea, maybe something on the full circuit at Oulton organised by the Anglesey Circuit Club (although not at Anglesey company all set up I guess)

It would need someone to get a date that would fit into all timetables and commitment to hire the circuit off MSV.

With the above in mind then maybe it would be something to think about next year?

Don't you think I'm busy enough?
I don't see why Anglesey Circuit Club should run it, they are a circuit based club [who happen to have run one winter meeting] and not a race promoting club. Also FF1600 comes under BRSCC and Classic 1600/2000 mainly under BARC and Historics the HSCC. Too many toes to tread on.
And, I can't make sense of the line
organised by the Anglesey Circuit Club (although not at Anglesey company all set up I guess)
mainly the bit in parenthesis [{(brackets)}]

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by JustinDawkins

If you wanted it to be awarded to a privateer John then there was only a choice of two drivers - one of which crashed on the parade lap! Well three if you count Ed Moore!

The parade lap shunter car vwas very well presented, pre-parade lap anyway...

I'm thinking more about the overall prizes.

We've brought in prizes which can only be won by a few and so only a few will enter. Shock!

The entry fee WAS attractive at the weekend but all the other categories had two races and 20 minute races at that. The FF1600s got one 20 lapper (16 min approx). The BRSCC also put on very FF friendly extra test-sessions - on the day we weren't there.

Like I said, I believe a bit more creative thought could have got more entries.

For every quick driver that has been attracted, it appears that a "slower" driver from 2004 has been discouraged.

A lot of people don't seem to realise that drivers of all levels, skill and budget, go to make up a healthy grid. NW and SW championships have VERY healthy numbers. With respect, some of those drivers, have no chance of finishing on the lead lap ever but, without them, the superstars don't look quite so good and the overall effect is all the poorer.

MSV could be fantastic, and one reason I entered was to support the concept but it clearly still needs developing...

[Tim Draffan]

It is the cost of competeing rather than the prize money that will encourage/discourage entries, the Golden Helmet is a good example, a cheap entry rather than a big prize fund for the top three.

How much is the entry for MSV races?

[JohnMiller]

Spot on. £165 at the weekend although normally £200 at Brands.

Take the £10,000 prize money and divide it by 10 rounds = £1,000 round. Add the notionally 'free' tyres to make £1,200 a round.

Take a £100 off the entry fee.

So, if we take last Sunday.

The 'take' was 12x £165 = £1,980. Less £1,200 prize costs = net take of £780.

Alternatively charge 12x £65 = ....... £780.

More people WOULD have entered so the take would have been MORE.

Maybe this shouldn't be based around 12, 16 perhaps being more realistic which might mean a slight tweaking of figures but I hvae no doubt this would put grids up as the Golden Helmet has so categorically proved.

[Walshy]

Just proves racing can be made cheaper.

Fair play to the BRSCC. They have been making some major improvements in that field and we are getting a little more for our money now. But we did spend a few years subsidizing weaker Championships at Oulton. We were getting 2 full grids (at least 50) cars at £160 per entry (£8000) and others were getting the same time on track as us with maybe 12 cars entered.

I have to say though, that with the help of Forums such as this and Clubff1600 (soon to be ff1600), people are obviously watching what's being said and listening. Things are on the up from a few years ago.

Let's hope they read this about the "Summer Spectacular at Oulton Park"

[mattray]

Blimey John that makes good sence! you should think about offering that sort of advice as a career!

[SCOBER11]

As regards the prize for a "privateer" i presume its the two tyres.The winner is a privateer who prepares his own car, in his own garage and drives his own truck to the circuit.He only shares garages with professional teams to cut down on expenditure.

The oultan park idea is great,we Irish guys would be delighted to support a race such as that,we were commited to silverstone this year for a double header but this had to be dropped with all the confusion about f1 GB.

Oh by the way i'm speaking about southern Ireland ff1600.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by mattray

Blimey John that makes good sence! you should think about offering that sort of advice as a career!

I believe that the powers that be would be willing to negotiate on occasion for an individual or group to buy the grid for the year, ie. at a set price based on a certain number of cars (16?) and then for the individual or group to sell them on either for their profit or for the good of the series.

Some modest risk though if grids fall short and I certainly haven't got time for it!

ChampionshipTech??

[Triple J Motorsport]

Isn't this what the Mono boys and Sports 2000 do?

What do the BRSCC charge for a race? If a race cost £2,000 you need 20 cars at £100 sure you get that plus more. What's left can given as prizes and start money. Say you got 30 you could give back £25 in start money and have £250 for trophies etc.

If you could buy 45 mins at Brands- 15mins qual plus 2 15 lap races

Someone with more time and money should look at it as John said

[diz]

Originally Posted by RayFF

Isn't this what the Mono boys and Sports 2000 do?

What do the BRSCC charge for a race? If a race cost £2,000 you need 20 cars at £100 sure you get that plus more. What's left can given as prizes and start money. Say you got 30 you could give back £25 in start money and have £250 for trophies etc.

If you could buy 45 mins at Brands- 15mins qual plus 2 15 lap races

Someone with more time and money should look at it as John said

Plus the 10 minutes clear up time x 3 = another 30 mins, so you'd need to buy 75 minutes.
Take the club total outlay of say £25,000 inclusive and divide it by the number of available track minutes [don't forget the marshals lunch break] say 0900-1800 = 9 hours minus 1 hour = 8 x 60 = 480 minutes. Then divide £25,000 by 480 minutes and multiply by 75 and your 75 minutes will cost you £3906.25 for your slot. Divide that by a token 20 entries and the entry fee stands at £195.31
Mind you, a very well supported class will make money to subsidise the single figure grids. I think we've been here before as a ten car grid would be £390.62 entry fee - they wouldn't pay it and the grid would then be far less than ten, the race gets canned and everybody elses fees go up to cover the shortfall.

If you are confused, ask Ian Sowman to explain it better, as he is an accountant.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Bloody Hell! did not know the cost was £25,000! I thought it was around £10K-£15K I guess it depends on which circuit! Brands and Donington being the dearest I guess!