What can be done to improve the WEC ?

[The Badger]

Ive started this thread cuz the ELMS thread is getting full of WEC comments .

Question is , asked initially of Fogelhund ..... what would you do to improve the WEC , and bolster up the ALMS , ELMS , AsLMS chain of series .

[The Badger]

One of my first thoughts is to balance out P1 and P2 in the ALMS ..... instead of having 3 cars per class , then at least we would have 6 in the same battle .

GTE is fine and getting healthier with Chrysler and Mclaren showing remened interest , so leave that alone .

CTC could be used to bolster up ELMS,ALMS and AsLMS ..... but not Le Mans , same with LMPC .

Making the WEC a P1 class only wont work imo , as there isnt enough to give full girds .

[Dyson Mazda]

Bring it to the places where the Sports Car fans are (Europe and USA/Canada) and stop sending them to the middle and far east. Also if they agree to run 5 races in Europe and 5 races in North America it makes it far cheaper on the teams and reduces travel costs a great deal and they could combine them with the ALMS and ELMS grids. They need to stop being such a competitor to those two series and work with them to build a stronger product. They also need to put together a decent tv package so fans can watch the races (ESPN 3 model would be fine for me).

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Making the WEC a P1 class only wont work imo , as there isnt enough to give full girds .

You do understand that it has been explained multiple times now, that the World Endurance Championship would only be rewarded, under my scenario to P1 teams, but would NEVER run standalone events? That means that the WEC would run with ELMS and ALMS, and have their full grids as support. Grids would not be an issue.

[lms]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

stop sending them to the middle and far east.

you mean like china and japan? lol. as i understand there are important car markets there for the manufacturers. You must have those rounds even if toyota wouldnt be racing in p1. + mazda will be joining soon with p2 engine, and maybe honda later as factory team in p1. There should absolutely be a race in at least japan. As for middle east like bahrain - no sense racing there. 2 euro rounds (+lm), 2 american rounds and 2 asian rounds makes perfect sense to me.
joined rounds would be cool if they would keep those fricking challange cars away. But that will never happen.

[kober]

Originally Posted by The Badger

what would you do to improve the WEC , and bolster up the ALMS , ELMS , AsLMS chain of series .

The answer is short: bring back the ILMC format (although for LMP1 only).

[Purist]

People buying cars does NOT equate to people buying high-end performance cars, much less being racing fans. To most, the car allows them to get places, but is merely a means of conveyance, and therefore no more important than any other household appliance to them in their normal, everyday thinking.

Japan makes sense, and I think China warrants A round, but to do more than that, I'd say they should do a third round in South Korea probably, where there is also a much stronger car culture than China.

I think the idea of just having P1 running for the WEC title is good, with the ALMS, ELMS, and AsLMS providing the rest of the grid.

If you get to the point where LMP1 and GTE-PRO can provide, say, 20 entries, then look at making it a bit more of a standalone series. If that happens though, I would simply merge the ELMS in to the WEC and have 5-6 European rounds, 2 Asian rounds, and 2-3 rounds in the Americas. The ALMS would still be separate, and the AsLMS could still function with GT3s or whatnot bolstering the grids.

BTW, during the old WSC, there was no great championship just for Europe per se; the World Championship included the major European races already.

Some of you seem to forget that for most of its existence, the old WSC did, in fact, include the 24 Hours of Le Mans. The World Championship for Makes did not include Le Mans in 1975-79, but I think the World Sportscar Championship did include the race in those years, so the only years from 1953-92 when Le Mans was fully standalone were 1989-90; that's it.

And Le Mans brings up a World Championship far more than being a part of a championship could drag Le Mans down, if it does any measurable damage to Le Mans at all. Not to mention, I'm not sure the manufacturers would have signed on to the WEC this time around if Le Mans had not been included in the series.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

You do understand that it has been explained multiple times now, that the World Endurance Championship would only be rewarded, under my scenario to P1 teams, but would NEVER run standalone events? That means that the WEC would run with ELMS and ALMS, and have their full grids as support. Grids would not be an issue.

Ahh , I see your point now .

But , what happens if you get 30 regular entries for a particular series , and there is 15 P1 cars out there ..... but the circuit isnt lisenced for 45 cars ?

[The Badger]

Whats the big differance between the ILMC and WEC then ?

[Purist]

Badger, the above was asked and answered (by Victor) in the ELMS thread.

Having a track not cleared for a field of 45 cars is a non-issue in Europe with the tracks you can expect to be chosen: Silverstone, Nurburgring, Barcelona, Algarve, Monza, Brno, etc.

Fuji and Shanghai over in Asia will have no such problem either, not to mention the AsLMS grid isn't going to be that big.

In the Americas, if Road Atlanta's maximum is 53 cars, Interlagos should be just fine with 45, or whatever number they can get. As for ALMS territory, I wouldn't even consider some of the tracks on the calendar over here, and I wouldn't expect the FIA to select a track of less than 4.0km for a WEC event, which would leave you with (fairly realistically) Montreal, Watkins Glen, Road America, Austin, Road Atlanta, Sebring, and possibly VIR. Among those circuits, Road Atlanta probably has the lowest maximum field size, at 53 cars. So again, I don't think your scenario is of particular concern as far as it actually happening.

[Rodger Davies]

agreed with everything Fogelhund has written throughout - said it last year and I'll say it again; you can't have a unique WEC grid and strong regional series without much more interest.

However, unfortunately, it's too late now to implement that kind of structure I fear - teams and Am drivers are able to buy their way into Le Mans and it doesn't seem like the ACO have any intention of stopping it.

ILMC was perfect in its concept - even the sportscar World Championships of years past relied heavily on local entries for its grids and now is no exception; these criteria the FIA have for 'World' status make little sense.

Unfortunately, I don't see how any of this is going to change until the WEC folds and, with the ACO plunging their money into this and the latest CLMS (Chinese Le Mans Series...), I don't see that being the case for a few years until the novelty factor wears off.

[alexkiller8]

in my opinion the thing that i don't like about WEC is that ACO selects a list of 30 cars as full-entry season and doesn't let other cars outside that list to bring points for the lmp1/lmp2/gtpro/gtam trophy!

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Purist

Badger, the above was asked and answered (by Victor) in the ELMS thread.

Ok , just checked that one .

[kober]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

in my opinion the thing that i don't like about WEC is that ACO selects a list of 30 cars as full-entry season and doesn't let other cars outside that list to bring points for the lmp1/lmp2/gtpro/gtam trophy!

Take a look at it from the other side: it's a way to force WEC-entrants to participate in all of the rounds. Bahrain race, for example, wouldn't give much fame to the championships with 10 cars on the grid, if majority of the entrants decided to skip it.
And currently, if you want to score points, you need to sign up, but if you signed up, you can't skip any races (in theory).

[The Badger]

Manufacturers should be forced to supply chassis , either 1 or 2 at a cost of course .

It would make them money from sales and support , as well as bolstering a series .

Group C would have been better if chassis had been made available , instead of having 19 Porsche 962C racing around Le Mans against works machines from Jag,Nissan,Toyota and sauber .

[TWRv12]

The biggest thing would be to stop the manufacturers taking the ****, like they always do, bit like Ground Hog Day.

If Audi and Toyota were in F1 or Indy they would have to supply engines to other teams.

Pity they don't spend more of the dough wasted on P1 to promote the series.

Is the LeMans 24hrs sucking the life blood out of the series?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Is the LeMans 24hrs sucking the life blood out of the series?

The Le Mans 24 hours is the whole point of the series . Its the greatest race in the world , so we have to suffer it , gladly .

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

you can't have a unique WEC grid and strong regional series without much more interest.

But that is the whole point - The ACO created the WEC because it expected more interest and I am sure it still does. Had pug not pulled out then they would have been looking at at least 3 manufacturers slogging it out in 2013 and we would all have been happy. Lets be patient this is the first year lets wait and see what 2014 brings as that is the make or break year for the WEC

I think GT pro (or a GT class) should also definately stay in WEC as this should be manufacturer based.

The big problem with ELMS is that it hasn't attracted the GT grid in the same way as ALMS has. If ELMS had a strong GT field alongside the already strong P2 field then there would not be an issue.

[ArnageWRC]

I’m not as optimistic as I was. When you have a new series, you want ot show it in it’s best light – so that means going to the best tracks with already established races. So Le Mans, Sebring 12 Hours, Petit Le Mans, then add races from UK, Germany, Italy plus Spa. A Japanese round or 2 say Fuji and Suzuka. As the series grows in strength – others can be added.
So what made them go to Bahrain? Where is the history of Endurance racing there? Is there a huge fanbase there?
Also, they’ve gone down the F1 model of guaranteed entries for all races – which stops wildcards or local entries, something which the WRC has brought in as well. It works for F1, but other categories don’t work like that.
And as much as it’s almost blasphemy – a series needs to be about more than 1 race, even if it is the Greatest race.

[MJones94]

For me, the best way to get the WEC name out there is to work on getting good TV coverage, first to prioritize on getting coverage for the host nations, then the surrounding nations. It is very hard to do, but having the mainstream media's attention of the series will also boost the series' popularity, or at least get more people to know about the sport.

I think the series needs its own Bernie type. No, not to screw things up like some might think I am going with this idea, but to get deals done. These could be such as TV coverage etc to really get the sport in the public eye.

As for the class structure, the WEC would never work as a P1 only series, there has to be other classes in there as well. As for the GTE-Pro/Am, I think the Am class should be dropped. If this championship is going to live up to its World status, then you have to appeal to the best drivers and teams, not amateurs need apply, thanks.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

I’m not as optimistic as I was. When you have a new series, you want ot show it in it’s best light – so that means going to the best tracks with already established races. So Le Mans, Sebring 12 Hours, Petit Le Mans, then add races from UK, Germany, Italy plus Spa. A Japanese round or 2 say Fuji and Suzuka. As the series grows in strength – others can be added.
So what made them go to Bahrain? Where is the history of Endurance racing there? Is there a huge fanbase there?
Also, they’ve gone down the F1 model of guaranteed entries for all races – which stops wildcards or local entries, something which the WRC has brought in as well. It works for F1, but other categories don’t work like that.
And as much as it’s almost blasphemy – a series needs to be about more than 1 race, even if it is the Greatest race.

if interlagos and shangai rounds have been "suggested" by peugeot, i guess that bahrain paid a lot of money to FIA and ACO to get back the F1 GP and a race of WEC. BTW i agree with you, in my opinion is a shame that WEC hosts only 3 races in europe! in my opinion there should be the 12h of sebring as open race of the champ, then at least 5 european races (le mans + spa, silverstone, monza, nurburgring or montmelo) and at the end a double japanese round (fuji + suzuka) as WSC used to organize more than 20 years ago. F*ck out countries like india, russia etc....

Originally Posted by MJones94

For me, the best way to get the WEC name out there is to work on getting good TV coverage, first to prioritize on getting coverage for the host nations, then the surrounding nations. It is very hard to do, but having the mainstream media's attention of the series will also boost the series' popularity, or at least get more people to know about the sport.

I think the series needs its own Bernie type. No, not to screw things up like some might think I am going with this idea, but to get deals done. These could be such as TV coverage etc to really get the sport in the public eye.

As for the class structure, the WEC would never work as a P1 only series, there has to be other classes in there as well. As for the GTE-Pro/Am, I think the Am class should be dropped. If this championship is going to live up to its World status, then you have to appeal to the best drivers and teams, not amateurs need apply, thanks.

would be nice what you suggested, but we need to be realistic... F1 races have a standard lenght of 1h and half; that is perfect for TV broadcasted event! while a 6h races will be boring for all the people that don't like endurance racing. I guess that is already a miracle if we can watch the 24h of le mans on eurosport...
Agree with you about the fold of current pro/am structure! my wish is that there will be again a GTE1 class with updated GTE cars preferably ran by work and official teams while a GTE2 class with GT3 cars preferably ran by private teams.

[MagVanisher]

I have an idea... Why not make WEC as a LMP1 and GTE-Pro series, sharing the grid with ALMS/ELMS/AsLMS full of LMP2s and GTE-ProAm cars.

Oh, and have 3 rounds at the Americas, 5 in Europe, and 2 in Asia.

Oh yeah, and please ignore this idea if this one won't work, but ACO should convince Grand-Am to join the 24 Hour Race at Daytona if the WEC is organized as a LMP1 and GTE-Pro series.

[Gingers4Justice]

I completely agree with TV coverage. When FIA GTs were in their glory days in the late 1990s, ITV used to do a highlights package on Sunday lunchtime.

Until WEC gets decent TV coverage (the live stuff is fine, I'm talking about accessible, high-quality highlights packages), it won't get any better.

Audi wins the Bahrain 6 hours. Great. Who knows?

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Mal

But that is the whole point - The ACO created the WEC because it expected more interest and I am sure it still does. Had pug not pulled out then they would have been looking at at least 3 manufacturers slogging it out in 2013 and we would all have been happy. Lets be patient this is the first year lets wait and see what 2014 brings as that is the make or break year for the WEC

I think GT pro (or a GT class) should also definately stay in WEC as this should be manufacturer based.

The big problem with ELMS is that it hasn't attracted the GT grid in the same way as ALMS has. If ELMS had a strong GT field alongside the already strong P2 field then there would not be an issue.

The ELMS can't attract the GTE grid. The WEC took many of the regular ELMS GTE entries and there aren't enough GTE cars out there anyway. There are too many GT series in Europe and the ELMS isn't getting enough entries due to this problem.

The first year of the WEC has been somewhat successful however the WEC has completely crippled the ELMS and that is THE PROBLEM.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Audi wins the Bahrain 6 hours. Great. Who knows?

such a surprise, audi that wins all race in WEC 2012