LMES Dates Update

rdjones · 29 Sep 2003, 17:28 (Ref:734383)

Just seen this over on DSC, now these dates are not confirmed but it looks like the dates are as follows:-

4 April, Monza
11 July, Nürburgring
15 August, Silverstone
12 September Spa

Russfeld · 30 Sep 2003, 01:29 (Ref:734736)

If there arent clashes with ALMS, reckon anyone can/will try to do the double?

SALEEN S7R · 30 Sep 2003, 01:48 (Ref:734749)

I doubt it Russfeld. Most of the teams that race in the ALMS are based in the USA im afraid. Of course though we may see some teams that race in the ALMS sometimes in the LMES, ie TVR and perhaps Konrad.

For the Silverstone event im expecting to see people like, GNM with their Porsche 911 GT3RS and Saleen as well as TVR, Rollcentre and perhaps TMC (Veloqx) and the Lister Storms may also be there as the LMP will be racing as we know, Id be suprised if Eclipse arent there too with their TVR and the same applies with the Eurotech team.

LMES could be a strong series, the GT's wont be as strong as the FIA GT line up I dont think, but it should be stronger than the ELMS was for sure. The LMP grids will be good all year through anyway. I cant wait until the Silverstone round.

Es Nes · 30 Sep 2003, 02:43 (Ref:734780)

the joest, champion, and gulf audi did elms. olive garden did too with their old lola/judd ... so, its possible

Fab · 30 Sep 2003, 05:09 (Ref:734839)

With Le Mans in June, we'll have a busy summer !

SALEEN S7R · 30 Sep 2003, 06:29 (Ref:734904)

Quote:

Originally posted by Es Nes
the joest, champion, and gulf audi did elms. olive garden did too with their old lola/judd ... so, its possible

I never said it woudnt happen, only that I thought it was unlikely. Maybe a couple of teams will do both, but at the moment I find it hard to belive that teams have the budgets needed to do both. Money is very tight at the moment, still lets just wait and see what happens eh.

rdjones · 30 Sep 2003, 06:43 (Ref:734920)

One thing to remember here is that Stephane Ratel is organising this series for the ACO, remember he also runs the FIA GT Championship and as far as I can work out no dates will clash there. As for the ALMS I have a feeling that there will be no clashs there either.

Mal · 30 Sep 2003, 06:57 (Ref:734937)

It may depend on the allocation of places for the 24Hr as teams trying to get automatic entry may well compete in both if there is a chance of that.

GTsports · 30 Sep 2003, 07:42 (Ref:734964)

Aren't there more automatic entries available for LeMans in the LMES than there are in the ALMS?

That doesn't seem fair since the LMES is new and the ALMS is in it's fifth season.

Is Ratel trying to make the ALMS into the red headed step child in the eyes of the ACO? Maybe he wants to kill the ALMS and become the Bernie E. of sportscar racing?

Why is Ratel running the FIA GT and the LMES? Doesn't Dr. Panoz have a contract with the ACO that includes Europe?

As far as I can see from the schedule the LMES will cause teams to pass on the ALMS, except maybe the Sebring 12 hours in the spring.

Good for those folks in Europe, bad for those in Canada and the US.

Mal · 30 Sep 2003, 08:01 (Ref:734985)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTsports
Aren't there more automatic entries available for LeMans in the LMES than there are in the ALMS?

That doesn't seem fair since the LMES is new and the ALMS is in it's fifth season.

Trouble is ACO is behind LMES so fair doesnt come into it!

SALEEN S7R · 30 Sep 2003, 08:47 (Ref:735034)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTsports
Aren't there more automatic entries available for LeMans in the LMES than there are in the ALMS?

I wasnt aware that class wins in the ALMS gained automatic entry to LM anyway. At least thats what I thought, and have never heard any mention of this. Is this really the case?

Fab · 30 Sep 2003, 09:31 (Ref:735072)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTsports
Aren't there more automatic entries available for LeMans in the LMES than there are in the ALMS?

I don't think so.

Quote:

Originally posted by GTsports
Maybe he wants to kill the ALMS and become the Bernie E. of sportscar racing?

I've nothing for or against S. Ratel ; he didn't ask for nothing concerning sportscars. For now, he seems to be as straight as he should be regarding the situation.

Quote:

Originally posted by GTsports
Why is Ratel running the FIA GT and the LMES? Doesn't Dr. Panoz have a contract with the ACO that includes Europe?

No ; D. Panoz has a deal only for USA, not for Europe. I don't think he's interrested by the European zone, BTW (I mean to rule a championship).

Quote:

Originally posted by GTsports
As far as I can see from the schedule the LMES will cause teams to pass on the ALMS, except maybe the Sebring 12 hours in the spring.

No ; there's simply no interrest for american teams to involved in a weaker championship than their own ; it's too far and too expensive, with a less important media covering.

Quote:

Originally posted by GTsports
Good for those folks in Europe, bad for those in Canada and the US.

Don't worry, it will be long before LMES reach the level, in terms of performances as well as covering/interrest/business, of ALMS... ELMS didn't cause any problems to ALMS last years...

BTW, welcome to the Ten-Tenths Sportscars and GT forum !

GTsports · 30 Sep 2003, 13:41 (Ref:735342)

Thank you,Fab.

Do not get me wrong, I like what Ratel has done with the FIA. He has worked to get the GTs back to health.

Now he runs the LMES too. He may do a good job there as well. My worry is that he will do so well that European teams don't bother to race in America.

As long as they still show up for the big race at Sebring I guess we will get by.

paul-collins · 30 Sep 2003, 13:45 (Ref:735349)

Panoz did have a contract for running Le Mans rules in Europe (worldwide, actually - remember the ELMS and Asia-Pacific was supposed to run in Malaysia and Australia, before 9/11 killed it) but I guess they dropped that when they renegotiated last year.

As far as Euro teams disappearing from the ALMS, I'd guess that Joest will still run a car over here (or two? Depends on Audi's marketing decisions); Prodrive I'd expect will come over as they'll be looking to hone their new cars; and JMB are already running cars on both continents. Only PK would you consider as a team that is purely "from the east side of the Atlantic," and my guess is that they'll come to ALMS if they can afford it, and stay in Europe if they cannot.

People tend to think the LMES will actively harm the ALMS' entry list, really all they'll do is claim potential (ie vapour) entries, such as the Domes, Durango, Courages, etc. We keep hoping they'll come over (just as we thought that John Nielson was serious about bringing over the DBA), but, more often than not, they don't make it over.

I still think that LMES should include Sebring and PLM, though. The races should count toward both series.

Russfeld · 30 Sep 2003, 16:29 (Ref:735545)

Im still not seeing the logic in having FIA GT and GTs in the LMES. Its not like there's more cars than entries.

Tim Northcutt · 30 Sep 2003, 17:41 (Ref:735614)

The way I have always understood it:

Season-long class winners in BOTH Series (ALMS (4) and LMES (4)) will get Le Mans bids, plus the Le Mans Podium finishers in each class (12). That is a total of 20 automatic bids....

Four other automatic bids supposedly come from somewhere else, because there are supposed to be a total of 24....

Maybe it will go to strong teams in either series that did not win their class?????

This was all explained in a thread a long time ago when what at one time was dubbed the "LM Tournament" was leaked to the media back in the spring....but I can't remember the particulars of how the 24 bids worked....

THis year, the LM 1000K was created as a one-time-only event to kick this thing off, with 12 bids going to the podium cars in each class...

I don't think that Sebring, PLM or any other races within this ACO-driven process gain anyone automatic bids to Le Mans, unless they figure into the first year only to kick this off....

If any of this is wrong, please correct me so that I can be sure that I understand it....

Also, If I've missed anything, please add it....

Thanks!

rdjones · 30 Sep 2003, 18:02 (Ref:735641)

I'm now confused just looked at the Autosport site and they say the dates are:-

April 4 Monza 1000km
July 11 Nürburgring 1000km
August 29 Spa 1000km
September 12 Silverstone 1000km

But if you look on the ACO site it says

May 9 - Monza
July 11 - Nürburgring
August 15 - Silverstone
September 12 - Spa

Confussed I am, but just looking at the again I think there is something else on at Spa on August 29th, I think it Porsche Super Cup supported by something called Formula 1........

Tim Northcutt · 30 Sep 2003, 18:15 (Ref:735651)

About a week ago, Fab or someone said that the Spa date would change from Aug. 29, because F-1 is running the Belgian Grand Prix that weekend....

Thus the ACO dates with Silverstone in mid-August and Spa in Sept. should be correct....

rdjones · 30 Sep 2003, 18:16 (Ref:735654)

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
Thus the ACO dates with Silverstone in mid-August and Spa in Sept. should be correct....

I would go with that - looks like good old Autosport get it wrong again......

Tim Northcutt · 30 Sep 2003, 18:20 (Ref:735659)

One Other Note:

The ACO has granted Don Panoz and the ALMS the rights to use the words "Le Mans" with their series and in essence has endorsed the series without being the specific governing body over it...although they do run ACO rules, etc....

It would make ZERO sense for the ACO to play favorites or to short-change the ALMS in favor the LMES when they are in support in one way or another of both series....

I see this more as a "North American" Division and a "European" Divsion of racing under the same rules and ultimate belssing od the parent sanctioning body...the ACO...and I have always understood it to be that way.....

GTsports · 30 Sep 2003, 18:35 (Ref:735675)

I think the other four are from the FIA GT. The top two from N-GT and GT.

billnchristy · 30 Sep 2003, 20:03 (Ref:735778)

I would think personally from an endurance standpoint that the LMES would be a much more demanding series than the ALMS, right now the ALMS has 2 endurance races Sebring and Petit, the rest are all sprint races. If the LMES had 6 1000k I would think that would justify having more LM spots than ALMS. Lastly I dont think this will hurt the ALMS just because it is the ALMS (American). Euro teams are always welcome, but the expense is high...right now the only thing europe has is FIA sportscars (which didnt seem that impressive to me last year watching on speed except being able to see new courses). LMES needs to happen, maybe then new protos like the Listers and the Courages will have somewhere to develop!

billnchristy · 30 Sep 2003, 20:04 (Ref:735780)

Courage being new only based on new designs, not on a new company (Just figured I would clear that up before being blasted!)

SALEEN S7R · 30 Sep 2003, 20:09 (Ref:735785)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTsports
I think the other four are from the FIA GT. The top two from N-GT and GT.

Yeah thats correct, but I think its only been like this from this year onwards. Not prior to 2003.

Tim Northcutt · 30 Sep 2003, 20:10 (Ref:735787)

LMES has only four events next year...Monza, Spa, Silverstone and Nurburgring...ALMS carries anywhere between 8 and 10 races in their series

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