BBC "Exclusive": Pat Head & Rory Byrne propose "biggest ... change since 1983" in '13

[duke_toaster]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/9307861.stm

OK, this has been rumoured for a while, but this does make it look more likely to happen. They appear to be good rule changes, my only concern is if the cars actually are five seconds a lap slower, it may devalue F1 - perhaps some tweaks to keep them nearer to current pace would be a better idea.

One possible error is that surely Jo Bauer would sign the rules off before handing to the teams, not Charlie Whiting?

[Paradise City]

Much smaller front and rear wings;

Yesss!

Tyres will remain large and chunky to ensure cornering speeds remain high.

Yesss!

Now listen up to these two, FIA and get sensible. No circus regulations just Patrick-Head common-sense please.

[Super Hans]

Smaller wings, less downforce and fat tyres, great. Full throttle restricted to 50% of a lap, not so great.

[jab]

I'm not convinced ground effect is the answer

I hope they're not just doing this because "it was good in the 80s". That is totally the wrong way to go about it

[Spritle]

F1 is becoming a joke.

[E-racer]

That comment regarding restricting full throttle to 50% just means that the cars are supposed to be harder to drive. Ie, Eau Rouge might not be easy flat anymore. That would be a good thing and would favor the better drivers over the kids who walk straight in from lower formula and get on the pace straigth away.

[duke_toaster]

That is what is being proposed, although it appears some people may have read in to that that it means some form of push to pass type system over and above KERS. What Andrew Benson describes it as is

The average proportion of a lap that a driver is able to spend on full throttle to be cut from 70% in 2010 to 50% in 2013;

Less throttle time will be possible with less downforce anyway.

This new rules package looks great (coupled with the 2013 powertrains), my only concern is if the cars are too slow, in which case I suppose with turbos it would be easier to crank up the power. Ideally the FIA would use these principles as a general blueprint for how single seaters should be, I suppose.

[E-racer]

It does look like a great idea. Reducing the cars dependance on aero is one of the most important areas to adress in order to promote overtaking. I guess the question is how much of this will actually see the light of day. Similar ideas to these have been floating around for a long time and never seem to come to fruition. People who spent a lot on windtunnels don't tend to like talk about decreasing aero much :-)

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

This new rules package looks great (coupled with the 2013 powertrains), my only concern is if the cars are too slow, in which case I suppose with turbos it would be easier to crank up the power.

Leading to decreased reliability when the proposal is to reduce the number of engines to 4 eventually!

[duke_toaster]

They could always not go for the four engines in 2014, or deliver some of the extra power by increasing the KERS (maybe go for a continuous baseline level whenever the throttle is applied*, still with the option of the tactical KERS).

*Theoretically a team could use the KERS throughout the lap to produce a diddy bit of power, the maximum is only on the rate, not the time, but it isn't as useful as the kick it provides now).

[Sodemo]

Great changes if true, though like most "great" changes they always get watered down. Remember the 2005 regs - Antony Davidson saying the Honda was like driving a big formula ford after all the aero cuts? 70% aero cut? More like 20%, which was soon made up over the 2005 season.

I just hope they make the cars wider too.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/9307861.stm

OK, this has been rumoured for a while, but this does make it look more likely to happen. They appear to be good rule changes, my only concern is if the cars actually are five seconds a lap slower, it may devalue F1 - perhaps some tweaks to keep them nearer to current pace would be a better idea.

One possible error is that surely Jo Bauer would sign the rules off before handing to the teams, not Charlie Whiting?

Great if it happens !!!

[jab]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Great changes if true, though like most "great" changes they always get watered down. Remember the 2005 regs - Antony Davidson saying the Honda was like driving a big formula ford after all the aero cuts? 70% aero cut? More like 20%, which was soon made up over the 2005 season.

Not to mention the changes for last year when all the lost downforce was quickly made up by things like the DDD and more on top to such an extent that Vettel's Q2 lap at Silverstone was the fastest quali lap on that layout ever

In a recent discussion, Pat Symonds dismissed the idea of ground effect helping overtaking as a paddock myth - he says they did investigations in the OWG and found that it created a wake that made it difficult for cars behind to follow, essentially like the DDD

[Sodemo]

Perhaps we might reach a point where the speed of the car is actually down to the mechanical grip of the chassis rather than the pure amount of downforce a car can generate...?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Spritle

F1 is becoming a joke.

Did you hear the one about the Englishman, the Irishman and the Scotsman?

Big tyres and less downforce from wings is good. I hope that they don't ruin it all with too much elec-trickery.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Perhaps we might reach a point where the speed of the car is actually down to the mechanical grip of the chassis rather than the pure amount of downforce a car can generate...?

That's a lot of wind tunnels left standing idle. Possibly an alround good thing when all's said and done.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Marbot

That's a lot of wind tunnels left standing idle. Possibly an alround good thing when all's said and done.

Stick planes in them.

[ECW Dan Selby]

I'm actually really encouraged by this.

I think essentially, they've got the right idea here. I don't think anyone can dispute that they've gone for the jugular this time. As much as it appeared that the 2009 regs might shake things up, perhaps in retrospect it just wasn't shaken up enough. This however, is a little different.

I think the engine regs look decent, and if it's encouraging other engine makers back in to the game, then it's definitely a positive.

Plus, I think people need to perhaps try and look at some of these new electronic gadgets as a possibility for variables. If, and it's a big if, teams are allowed to develop their electronic technologies, then that's surely a positive, too, especially given the amount of spec'ing that's been going on over the past few years.

And overall the idea of less wing, more rubber can't be faulted. Last thing i'd like to see mentioned is the idea of widening the cars a little more once again.

Selby

[Sodemo]

One thing which puzzles me, they state that "tyres will remain large and chunky". That doesn't really tell us a lot, are they going to stay the same size? Are they going to be wider?

If they are massively reducing downforce (which I hope) then one way to keep cornering speeds high is to make wider tyres and have a wider wheel track (back to 2000mm or 2200mm?).

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Stick planes in them.

Apparently, the likes of high speed train manufacturers would be interested in using/purchasing them.

[duke_toaster]

There are wind tunnel users other than racing teams, certainly - planes, road cars, trains, golf balls (probably) etc. One rule that I'd like to see is that, bearing in mind the model size and air speed are limited, a restriction that wind tunnels can only be used during normal business hours.

[RF_Racer]

F1 cars need 900-1000BHP
Mixture of V8, V10 and V12 engines
18" rear slicks
220cm width
Flat Bottom

We want to watch a sport where these cars are the pinnacle of motorsport.. not some ECO green F1 cars with silly little 4 pot 1.6 litre engines that are found in a small family hatch. Somthing is clearly wrong!

In otherwords soemthing like this:

[duke_toaster]

"Silly little 4 pot 1.6 litre engines that are found in a small family hatch"? Find me a 650hp small family hatch, then ...


I admit would be more comfortable with ~700hp + KERS though, to ensure power levels are roughly like current ones, but the cars - bearing in mind their power levels (remember, more powerful KERS) and cornering speeds, will still be the top of motorsport. Larger rear wheels are an option, but 2.2m track would possibly make overtaking worse around circuits like the Hungaroring or street circuits where there might not be as much physical room to overtake.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

... but 2.2m track would possibly make overtaking worse around circuits like the Hungaroring or street circuits where there might not be as much physical room to overtake.

I don't believe thats a concern at all. I mean if Piquet can overtake Senna around the outside of turn 1 at Hungary with a 2200mm car, then that pretty much sells it for me.

Making the cars wider is about stabilty and drag as much as corner speed. With wider cars there is more drag, thus less inclination to run a lot of aero.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

a restriction that wind tunnels can only be used during normal business hours.

The problem there is that it's just not going to go down too well with the local electricity provider if you keep stopping and starting your wind tunnel all of the time.