Sauber - dark horse for 2003?

[Super Tourer]

Just been reading that the 2003 Sauber is going to be based around the complete rear end of the 2002 Ferrari, be fitted with the 2002 engine and the ultra smart Ferrari gearbox.

What a starting point! As Sauber build a fairly tidy car anyway, these must surely be the best baseline ingredients available.

A 2003 Sauber that's 50% of the 2002 Ferrari, sounds like a good year in prospect to me.

[Wrex]

There is no doubt the Sauber is going to be a very quick reliable little car next year. Having the engine from the most dominant reliable car from last year should be enough to scare Renault, Honda, Toyota and Ford. Even Williams and McLaren will have to up the pace to stay in front (which I believe they will).

But taking the rear end is going to make it very nice indeed.

[Glen]

The Renault will be a force to be reckoned with, as will Jaguar and (possibly) BAR. As all the designers learn the hard lessons that the F2002 has taught them a team like Sauber, with limited resources and no chief designer, is going to find it very hard to stay in touch. It seems to me that the edge that the F2002 has is many-fold - and not only does it have a plethora of features that are outstanding, but it also combines these attributes in such a way as to add up to more than the sum of its parts. In other words I think the purity of the design and its stunning high quality as a whole concept is the true reason for its success, rather than just having a fantastic engine/transmission/rear-end.

A fantastic engine/transmission/rear-end ain't going to hurt, on the other hand...

5th or 6th for Sauber is my punt - Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, Renault, Jaguar, Sauber?

[Wrex]

A good point Glen. I see some big steps forward for many teams next year.

Williams are'nt going to like being pistol-whipped as bad as they were this year. And McLaren also will not be settling for third spot on the ladder.

Renault are ready to take it to the big boys. Sauber (as stated above) will have a very nice package.

Jaguar are an unknown, but my fingers are crossed that the new car shows what Pizzonia and Webber can do. Jordan have the new Ford donk, combined with Fisi points look very good.

BAR? Not sure. I think Honda will take some big steps forward, the Toyota was a little quick this year, and with only one team, I'm hoping for good things.

Toyota are sticking to the plan. I'm very sure they won't be mixing it with Minardi next year (let alone finishing behind them).

I see Minardi getting a big step forward as well, but because everyone else is looking so good, I think they'll stay where they are.

Ferrari

(0.5 sec)

Williams, McLaren

(0.25 sec)

Renault, Sauber

(0.5 sec)

Jordan, Jaguar, BAR, Toyota

(1.0 sec)

Minardi






(7.5 sec)















Arrows.

[f1manoz]

I always cheer Sauber because my favourite driver (good ol' Nick) drives for them.

I'm hoping this years car is better, and that Sauber do what they did in 2001 - that is, continue to develop the car, something they obviously did not do this year...

[Mark Webber]

I truly like Sauber but I feel the time is dawning on them with so much Factory support small team will fall down the list but of all the small non factory teams sauber will hold out the longest .
I also think BIG improvement's in other teams will come next year and with the new rules this will only help
this is my listing's in Order
Ferrari Bmw
small gap to
Mac Renualt Jaguar Toyota
silghtly bigger gap to
Sauber
large cap to
Minardi Honda Jordan
big gap to
Arrows ( i hope they run)

nomraly its a top 3 teams but next year I feel /hope a top 5 team fight out will occur

[Super Tourer]

Def, Ferrari will be the pace setter's. I think the F2002 with mod's will easily have the legs on even the new offering's from William's & McLaren. I can see this being very dispiritng for other teams and their heads going down early on. It's easy to talk a good fight, but as Patrick Head having your nose rubbed in it week in week out, is a different matter.

I'm wondering if Ilmor have started to run out of ideas for Mercedes and that will be McLaren's weak point again.

I've read some mumblings that Renault are supposed to have committed to what some believe is the 'wrong' engine for 2003, and it's too late to change.

Jag - surely has to be better.

Jordan - On paper could do an Arrows, comitted to a massive engine deal and no major sponsor, all this will have a knock on effect on what they can spend on the car. I think paying the bills will be their main task in 2003.

Bar - under pressure but should make progress.

Toyota - don't expect a great deal - I still don't think they've learnt what it takes to be in F1 yet.

Minardi - Saw a rumour on another site that PS has allegedly turned down the cossie deal and is looking to buy the old Asiatech stuff from the recievers to develop themselves. Don't know if this has any credence, but Minardi haven't broken their necks to confirm the cossie deal.

[woodbine]

I wouldn't get too carried away by this. After all in 2001 Prost had the 2000 Ferrari rear end and look how their car was!

Still I expect that Sauber will still be pushing Renault, BAR et al for 4th place.

[Mr V]

It's a good starting point, no doubt, but Sauber aren't Ferrari and they don't have the resources to develop the car once the other teams like Renault, Jag(??) etc start getting to grips with their 2003 cars properly. I think that Sauber will have a fairly good start to the season and will score most of their (final total) points at the beginning of the season and start dropping off from the mid season mark. Having HH-F in the team, who has a lot of experience coupled with Nick might drive the team on to score more points next season than they've every scored in the season before, but saying that, with the new points system most (lower) teams will have the scope to score more points.

[neilap]

Sauber does not have Bridgestone in their back pockets. It is going to be difficult to acclimate the rest of the chassis to the Ferrari's rear end. They may have good reliability and decent speed at the start of the season. However if the other teams do their jobs I don't see them as a factor.

I said the same thing last year too. However Honda, BAR and the rest did not perform up to the standard that was expected. By the end of the season Sauber were positioned where I expected at the seasons start.
One team should, (in other words has no excuse not to) make a good leap next year, BAR. They have been coming for years now and still have not arrived. For the budget and resources at their expense they NEED to be taking the fight to Renault, at least!

[golem]

I figured Sauber will have a leg up thanks to that. It'll allow them to just have an even MORE reliable and tidy package than usual. I'd say they won't shift down any unless they truly screw the pooch, maybe up to take renaults place.

Jaguar, eh. They blow hot and cold, I feel for their drivers. Jordan's in much the same boat, but at least they're a little more consistant.

BAR: They say they've finally made all the changes but I don't see it. I see Honda working their asses off though, and I get the feeling that engine's power outputs might keep going up.

Renault: Expect them to be a marginal gain on times made this year so maybe lose a position or two.

Toyota: I have a feeling this is a team to keep an eye on in technical terms, only to be potentially let down by drivers. Kinda anti-jag. Put at least McNish or Salo back in you idiots.

Arrows: I Think arrows is gone. It's just TOO late for Arrows, despite how much I'd like to see them. They always looked very nice and one of the most noticable cars in their Orange sponsored livery.

Minardi: Eeeh... They need to fluke an absolute stunner and score a cosworth. If they just refine the cars concepts and use the Asiatech ne Peugot ne Moses, they'll struggle so much.

Ferrari/McLaren/Williams next year. All are working on revolutions. I get the feeling Ferrari's 2002 is fast enough to stay on top until way into next season. With just enough revising they could deliberately insult everyone quite possibly by just improving that car into the F2002C or something and winning. At some races it has been just that damn far ahead.

[Jukebox]

Too early to predict, eventhough Sauber did copy Ferrari's periscope exhaust exit shape in 2-3 races, 4th quarter of the race....it's only part of the body, the exhaust itself is not shaped like a periscope. So did Williams....The fact is that the rear wing elements had to be adjusted as well as the exit of gasses would pass through them directly as opposed to the conventional exhaust exit. And that is only a part of it....

The F2002 designs was just too perfect as every structure elements of the car had been thoroughly studied as to obtain the best air flow and these also is a part of contribution to the extra seconds of advantage they had over other rivals.

Teams (Sauber & Williams) that had copied them this season would found out that it'll not work for them as it'll not be a completed package. They simply have to change the whole design of the car totally as air that goes through from the front would also have an effect if the rear end had been changed and all those hours of testing in the windtunnel before the start of the season would just be a waste.

Can't wait for the winter testing season to see all the team's car.

[EERO]

I'm going to agree with Super Tourer. Sauber will have athe third best engine on the grid and should have a tidy chassis, Given a very potent driver pairing, I think they could well embarrass Renault and BAR and I expect them to trounce Jaguar, TOYOTA and Jordan.
With a little luck HHF could nail a win.

[TeddyG]

That is pretty scary news for BAR, Jaguar, and Renault. If they can't keep up with half of a 2002 Ferrari they will look pretty silly since they all have works deals. I don't expect much from Toyota it's only there second year and they still have A LOT to learn. Jordan will be far down the grid with those year old Cossies in the back.
I can see Sauber beating Jaguar consistenly. But I expect big improvements from BAR and Renault next year.
Here's how I see it;
1. Ferrari (not as dominant but still damn good)

2. Williams (JPM will have a much better season)

3. McLaren (very close to Williams)

4. BAR (much better car thanks to Willis, increased power from Honda - consistent points, and podiums when the top 3 have problems. Maybe a win for JV!!??)

5. Renault (good overall package)

6. Sauber (giving Renault a run for it's money)

7. Jaguar (still having good days and bad, mostly bad!)

8. Toyota (most improved team - actually maybe BAR will get this honour)

9. Jordan (worst year in a long time)

10. Minardi

11. Arrows (if there are in they'll suck!)

[Valve Bounce]

You guys all seem to have forgotten a very important component - the blackbox. It would be very intersting how much testing data from Ferrari will be incorporated into the Sauber. Expect to see an improvement over several cars next year. And greater consistancy than last year.

[BootsOntheSide]

I don't have high expectations for Sauber 2003, even with Ferrari parts they will struggle to design the rest of the car as impressively as the better funded works teams, and could end up with an ill-balanced car with too much grip at the rear compared to the front.

Either way, Suaber's long term future looks dubious unless Peter can do an alliance with a major car company. Once the regulations change (maybe 2004?) they will have to start from scratch, which will allow the likes of Jaguar and Toyota to thoroughly outdo them.