Low cost formulas........hmmmmmm

[speedy king]

One of the reasons i chose to race in Junior Rotax is because of the low cost and maintanence because of how the engines are sealed and ment to be non-tunable to some extent.

However, this season imparticular where i race there have been people turning up for one or two races with the most un-believeable engines. Now mine is in no way underpowered, i pull away from people at top end speed however these engines are just purely un-believeable, on the straights they can pull up to a 5 metre lead on some of these karts.

Some engines vary in performance but i don't see how they can vary that much. We've changed jetting, gearing etc so its the same as the faster karts, my engine only had a re-build last May and i'm totally baffled at how their engines are so powerful?

Nothing can be legally added to the fuel? Anyone have any ideas what could be done to a Rotax engine to get that sort of performance without spending rediculous amounts of money (over a grand)?:confused:

[hgmonaro]

what about the chassis. If they're coming off the final turn faster they will zoom down the straight. Are they running lees teeth on the sprockets? Have you followed one closely to see where they get the advantage?

[speedy king]

I used to have less teeth on my sprocket but the trouble with Ellough is you need lots of acceleration, so i had to change as although my top speed was great my acceleration was poor, i was still being beaten on top speed by some of these people though. I have a 2001 Gillard, the people in question have a 2002 Gillard/2004 Gillard/2002 Tony Kart/2003 CRG, which i know are all good chassis'.

I've followed the Gillard (2002) along the straight and he pulled away with acceleration, but kept the speed all the way though, he didn't lose anything at the end of the straight. The CRG competes at Kimbolton and his engine is just breathtaking, acceleration/top speed everything thats what baffled me and think it was more the engine rather than gearing etc.

Confusing?

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Seeing as Max engines are sealed it would be possible to cheat if you were in the right position with regards to an engine preparer.

I'm not saying this is what is happening, but it's definatly a possibilty.

What you would do is ask him to strip your engine, tune it and then re-seal it. Seeing as the only people who can open up an engine legally are the official engine preparers, at a meeting no-one would be in a position to investigate cheating claims against you. Anyway.. your engine would be sealed, so who could argue against that?

Get it?

[speedy king]

Totally. I have actually found information that teams who have licenses to make and seal their own engines do exactly that. They choose the best parts, tinker around where no one can see, seal it up and go out and win.

Makes a total mockery of the system and leaves us genuine racers out of pocket trying everything we can to get on equal grounds in performance

[hgmonaro]

It does sound like a more powerful engine. A single gear setup it always a compromise but when they put away under acceleration and keep on going it's unlikely they are doing something strange like running lots more or less teeth.

I once ran a lot less teeth after finding it to be very fast in practice, however in the race from my starting position I couldn't use the speed as I was behind people who were slow through the corner leading onto the main straight. They skipped away from me out of that corner and I was just getting to them at the end of the straight, sometimes managing the pass under brakes but sometimes not and getting stuck behind them for another lap as the same thing was happening at other possible passing points around the track.

I forget exactly how many less teeth I used that day (last time I tried that BTW!) but maybe you should try dropping one tooth and working on your kart chassis setup, hopefully you can keep the corner speed and gain down the straight. Sometimes different gearing suits different driving styles too.

Just thought of another thing to check, which was very hard to detect. One day I was just going slow... no matter what I did to the kart I couldn't get a decent time out of it. I wasn't getting the usual revs out of the motor so was concentrating on that aspect. Clean carby, new gaskets, new plug, alter gearing, etc. Then someone suggested checking the rear axle! It was moving sideways ever so slightly and the added friction on the bearings was enough to slow me down but not enough to jump out as an obvious problem. Tightened up the grub screws and all was well. Used to pay a bit more attention to that area for maintenance after that!

[Alex Hodgkinson]

Reading your championship status in your sig it's obvious you're not a shabby driver, so gaining 5 metres down a straight, unless these guys are S1 frontrunners, is almost certainly not legal..

Just out of interest how many revs do you run your Max to? I had one of the first max engines in the country and I used to run it at practise days etc just to get the feel of driving a kart back in '99. There was talk in the engine manual about a rev limiter on the engine, so we tried to find it. We found out that there was no limiter on that particular engine, we reached 15500 rpm with it and found out that max engines pull like hell above 13-5! We ran it for 20hours like that so it's obviously didn't hurt it! If you feel like experimenting a bit ever bear that in mind.


Anyway I turned my back on max after they introduced the "right hand side radiator" rule (i used to run my rad on the left,) and after I thought about the engine seals a bit more. It's really awful that sealed engine classes leave a door wide open for large teams to cheat, so I've steered clear of engine-sealing classes.

[speedy king]

Thats very interesting on the rev-limiter. We do have them, can't think what the maximum is but i'll check that out! Thanks

[speedy king]

And as a matter of interest where you mentioned Super One front runners. We did actually have a racer from Stars Of Tomorrow who's engine was very very powerful but still wasnt a scratch on one guy's who dosent race in Stars or Super One

[#15 tkm 4/]

you can always change class to a TKM 4stroke where the engines are sealed and re-buolt only by tal-ko, which means a fair eninge every time!!

lol, jokes, just try out differnt line maybe, they could of just got a better run out the previous corner??

[G Halls]

Take time to examine everything on your kart is free and square!
does the axle run really free are the brakes binding every little piece that is not running free will create a drag and slow the kart down especially at the top end where the engine is starting to drop off the power,
Try to minimalise your steering inputon straights (dont weave or change line) as this causes drag
(IE) stand behind your kart with the wheels facing straight and push it along it should move forward freely,
Now try doing it with the wheels turned 3/4 lock and it will become hard work
Just a thought and well worth looking over

[Alex Hodgkinson]

On the note of things to do with your kart, do you run with toe out? If yes, then try running it parallel and playing with the pressures, track or torsion bars to get it how you like it. Also try upping your pressures all round a lb or two - all in aid of reducing rolling resistance.

[Fiorentina 1]

Gearing might have something to do with it. Also, the older the engine the looser & better they seem to be. I would also say check the power-valve, but juniors don't have power-valves. If the motor has a hesitation around 8 grand rpm, clean the carb really well, and check the card floats, see if they work.

[ukkartace]

what if its just not one thing, in genral they just have a better combination. e.g. their chasis is working better, they have managed to find a better set up and wat if the driver is just that little bit better?

[ss_collins]

turn 17 drop karting and take up Formula Vee - huge grids modern cars, a chance to learn most of the circuits, if you win you get noticed, if you have a nightmare no-one notices.

Oh and its dirt cheap.