March 723

[Chris Townsend]

The constant search for more information about cars running in Atlantic keeps leading me to ex F3s that had a BDA put in the back, or even just kept the t/c.

There are a couple of March 723s that are important in Atlantic from 1972 through to 1975 and I wonder if anyone has any record of who might have had which chassis. The cars I am particularly interested in are those of Robin Smythe and Stan Matthews.

The full record of cars appearing, with first dates, looks something like this:

Prototype: Williamson [27.12.71] March: James Hunt [early season 1972]
Robin Smythe [2nd March 723 made its debut' AS 20.1.72 p. 4] So is it chassis 02?
appears Brands FL 6.2 David Powers
appears early March McKechnie for Bob Evans; Roger Keele 1973
appears early March Stan Matthews
ordered mid February, appears mid March Ford Germany for Jochen Mass
appears mid March Wheatcroft: Roger Williamson
appears mid March March: Brendan McInerney, perhaps the Cramer hillclimb car in 73
ordered January, appears 19/3 Patrice Compain
appears 19/3 Eifelland: Hannelore Werner
appears 19/3 Eifelland: Willi Deutsch
ordered mid February, appears 1/4 Russell Wood

Smythe runs his car in Atlantic late 72 and sometimes in 1973, even though he'd also got a GRD by then.
Matthews kits his car as a 73B [almost anything, it seems could be described as a 73B, from a 712M to a Routemaster bus] then sells it to Chris Oates; Oates then passes it on to Val Musetti, and it becomes the basis of one of his two bitsa cars and appears in a great number of races.

Any observations or records gratefully received.

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Chris

Posting is a little confusing by your usual high standards. is the above 1 car or 2, there doesn't appear to be any separation of the details.

Period is a bit early for me, but I do remember an A/S ad in mid-72 for a 723, from the "Fiddlers Three International Racing Team" selling a David Powers 723, apparently an F3 car.

Btw is 'Robin Smythe' listed above the later famous 'Robin Smith', of Chevron G6, Ensign/Surtees Aurora fame ?

[Chris Townsend]

Sorry should be clearer that the Smythe car is one thing and the Matthews one is quite another.
and the breakdown of appearance and owners looks like this:

The Prototype: Debut by Williamson [27.12.71] then works car for James Hunt [early season 1972]

'The Smythe car' Robin Smythe [2nd March 723 made its debut' AS 20.1.72 p. 4] So is it chassis 02?

'The Powers car' appears Brands FL 6.2 David Powers, sponsored by Fiddlers Three restaurant and used by others late season

'The McKechnie car' appears early March for Bob Evans; goes to Roger Keele 1973

'the Matthews car' appears early March for Stan Matthews

'The Mass car' ordered mid February, appears mid March entered by Ford Germany for Jochen Mass

'The Wheatcroft car' appears mid March for Roger Williamson [rapidly jettisoned in favour of a GRD]

'The second works car' appears mid March for Brendan McInerney later run by several other drivers when Hunt and McInerney left [including Jones and Jarier], perhaps the Cramer hillclimb car in 73

'The Compain car' ordered January, appears 19/3/72 for Patrice Compain

'An Eifelland Car' appears 19/3/72 entered by Eifelland for Hannelore Werner

'The other Eifelland car' also appears 19/3 Eifelland for Willi Deutsch

'The Wood car' ordered mid February, appears 1/4/72 for Russell Wood entered by Peter Bloore, Wood also runs a works car at times.

Is 'Robin Smythe' Robin Smith. I don't know. The latter was a Scottish sports car racer originally, so maybe not.

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

Reviving this thread, I wonder if one of the more technically endowed can tell
me how feasible it would have been to have converted a March 723 to a 722.
There is a story that Wheatcroft's March 722 [chassis 41] used in late 1972 then sold
to Patsy McGarrity was built out of the team's 723, which was rendered
redundant when Williamson switched to a GRD for his F3 racing in May 72. The 723 doesn't appear after then, and I can't trace any possible user in 1973.

Chris

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Reviving this thread, I wonder if one of the more technically endowed can tell
me how feasible it would have been to have converted a March 723 to a 722.
There is a story that Wheatcroft's March 722 [chassis 41] used in late 1972 then sold
to Patsy McGarrity was built out of the team's 723, which was rendered
redundant when Williamson switched to a GRD for his F3 racing in May 72. The 723 doesn't appear after then, and I can't trace any possible user in 1973.

Chris

No problem - chassis, suspension, pedals, steering will be the same.

Engine frame might be different (as could rear crossmember & link anchor plate) but would use the same chassis mountings anyway, and just bolts to the tub.

Bodywork probably the same (smaller rear wing, possibly different nose).

Main changes would be the brakes and the wheels which are easy to change, even the hubs would be the same (driveshafts might be different).

March used the same chassis unit and other components whenever possible - even the F1 tub would have been based on the same design.

[Neptune]

Chris,

It would appear that a number of F3 were converted to Atlantic and perhaps the other way around. I know on Modus, the tubs certainly look to be the same except that the tankage was greater on the Atlantics, but that was just a matter fo putting a 2nd bladder into the LH sponsoon. A lot of the suspension looks the same except at the lower rear under the FT box, where the parallel lower arms replace the reversed wishbones that F3s used. Of course the brakes and g'box are different and I wouldn't be surprised if the Fatl nose was a bit wider to shield the wider front rubber. If you've got the bits, pretty easy to change.

So, what I'm asking is, while you're uncovering FAtl facts, please don't just discard the F3 info, since the cars are based on same tubs etc for the most part. If you don't want to mix them in your files, how about separating them into their own folders and make them available to those of us w/ the lesser formula.

Roger

[allenbrown]

Do I sense a Formula 3 project starting? OldRacingCars.com is, as ever, happy to host, facilitate and support such a project.

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

Given the convergences of F3 and Atlantic [and my own interests!] I have built up quite good F3 records. One of my next attempts in tracing chassis histories will involve March 753 and 763s, so if anyone's got anything to offer that would be good.
[Adam, do you have build records for these?]

And thanks for the advice on 722/723 looks like this might well explain what happened to the Williamson 723.

Chris

[Adam Ferrington]

Chris,

Yes, both 753s and 763s are covered.
I'll e-mail you the details.

[Bryan Miller]

Chris,

I know it does not help, however are you aware of the Autosport advert. March 9th 1972 , page 61 , for sale unused due to change of plans , new March 723 , ph. 01-930 9546.
Would have been an early delivery car one suspects .

Bryan.

[allenbrown]

I'm just tidying up some details on March 722s and have revisted Robin Smythe's March 723. This car was used by Smythe as a F/Atlantic on a few occasions in 1973.

Smythe seems to have been pretty close to Reg James who drove Smythe's GRD on occasions in 1974 and also put his name to the BDA in the back of that car when Symthe drove it once in 1973.

Also during this time, James drives a March that is described as a 722-BDA in 1973 and as a 723-twincam in 1974. So I'm wondering ... could this be the Smythe 723?

By the way, I looked up Robin Smith's bio in the Kettlewell Directory and it makes no mention of F3 and F/Atlantic GRDs and Marchs so I'm confident Smith and Smythe were different people.

Allen