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18 Jun 2003, 13:41 (Ref:635534)
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
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How Stoddart spends Bernies money!!
From www.autosport.com
European Minardi Cosworth F1 team principal Paul Stoddart bought five Arrows A23 chassis yesterday, the first day of the two-day, 2496-lot auction of the remaining assets of Arrows Grand Prix International in Leafield, UK. The A23 chassis was used by the now defunct team in all but the final seven races of the 2002 season. Stoddart's move has led to speculation that these cars will replace the current Minardi PS03 as soon as practicable. Bet Bernies glad that his money has gone on year old cars 
Last edited by Mr V; 18 Jun 2003 at 13:41. |
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That's so frickin uncool man! 
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18 Jun 2003, 13:50 (Ref:635541)
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,618
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don't know the source of that, but im listening to the auction live, they only have one race chassis and they haven't gotten to the cars ye those are going tomorrow.
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__________________
I refuse to let fact get in the way of my opinion
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18 Jun 2003, 13:54 (Ref:635545)
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,936
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Sad to say, but the A23 _is_ a better machine. This is really nothing new in F1, it's a very old practice, we just haven't seen it for a while.
It could definitly provide a boost for Wilson and Verstappen if they get the cars up and running. Stoddart also bought a load of equipment and supplies at the auction. http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns11349.html The article suggests that switching to the Arrows chassis wholesale would hurt team moral. Wouldn't it be more harmful to keep running a miserable POS like the current Minardi? Wilson could be running upper-midfield in the A23! |
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__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979
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18 Jun 2003, 14:03 (Ref:635549)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
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I don't know....if I was an engineer that poured my sweat and blood into a project, and then had it dumped I'd be pretty down about it. That said, F1's never cared about peoples feelings, so whatever Minardi can do to be competitive is the right thing to do. I'm sure they'll try and do a bit of development on the A23s.
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"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes
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18 Jun 2003, 14:04 (Ref:635550)
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Racer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 413
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he just saved a fortune - what price are wind tunnels? - LOL
how do you know this wasn't the first business tip of the new 'silent partner' of Bernie-Minardi? |
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__________________
Let no way be the way - let no limitation be the limitation! The late great Bruce Lee
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18 Jun 2003, 14:14 (Ref:635560)
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Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,304
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The A23 and the current Minardi both use(d) the same cossie engines......
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__________________
'I've seen it, but still don't believe it.....'
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18 Jun 2003, 14:44 (Ref:635577)
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,083
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I hope he gets most of the aero kit and dampers that are designed for it or it'll take ages setting it up and understanding it
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18 Jun 2003, 14:48 (Ref:635582)
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,320
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Just got to hope Wilson fits in it.
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18 Jun 2003, 14:52 (Ref:635589)
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Racer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 413
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Quote:
Sauber have proved that by using last year's Ferarri engine - what a waste! 
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__________________
Let no way be the way - let no limitation be the limitation! The late great Bruce Lee
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18 Jun 2003, 14:59 (Ref:635599)
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#10 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 155
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ITV's Teletext service quotes a Minardi spokesman saying that the Arrows chassis were paid for by a "generous" Dutch sponsor.
It also adds that Mike Coughlan who worked on the Arrows A23 is now at Minardi. Both this year's Minardi and the Arrows A23 were designed for a Cosworth engine. May be they're to join Paul Stoddart's Tyrrell collection... |
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18 Jun 2003, 15:17 (Ref:635615)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,936
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Well, with Coughlan around, that betters the chances of running the A23.
It's not a brilliant car, mind you, but it was a good lower-midfield car last year, certainly a suprise from Arrows, and would still be an improvement for Minardi. And, if they start running the A23 now, they can put much more of their efforts into the PS04 (or A23-D, if they decide the chassis itself is superior)... Do they actually have a windtunnel now? Where's Sergio Rinland these days? 
Last edited by Lee Janotta; 18 Jun 2003 at 15:19. |
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__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!" -Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979
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18 Jun 2003, 15:49 (Ref:635637)
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#12 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,223
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Quote:
Lee - Sergio Rinland is trying to make a couple of orange Peugeot 307s go fast in the BTCC. |
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18 Jun 2003, 16:01 (Ref:635641)
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#13 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,565
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I agree that they will switch to these chassis' as soon as possible. Next will be a team name change to Bernardi.
*Thanks to Townsend Bell for coming up with the name during the Canadian TV broadcast* |
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18 Jun 2003, 16:49 (Ref:635681)
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#14 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,739
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Quote:
The A23 was a great car, if underdeveloped! Hope they can make it work for them. |
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__________________
A torrential afternoon practice session in Watkins Glen saw Villeneuve out-qualify everyone. By 11 seconds.Scheckter stated: "I scared myself rigid that day, I thought I had to be quickest. Then I saw Gilles's time and - I still don't really understand how it was possible. Eleven seconds !"
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18 Jun 2003, 18:34 (Ref:635802)
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#15 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 459
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If Stoddart bought 5 of them hes probably going to race them. Hard to believe a year old Arrows is better then the new Minardi, it shows how far down the ladder they really are.
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__________________
"What's the point? We have no power. Are we going to put 'Loser' on the sidepod for a sponsor?" - John Menard
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18 Jun 2003, 18:51 (Ref:635829)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 729
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Well, I think we'd be surprised how little differance there is in a chassis performance in some of the low teams year to year. I reckon most development comes from tyres and aero myself. Hell Jaguar took a backward step last year.
There's every chance with the A23's and anything Minardi might add, they can end up with a better result. Either that or they figured it's just outright cheaper to buy these ones rather than mae more? ^_^ "We're losing ANYWAY soo..." PS: Didn't stoddy sell alot of his old tyrells to help the team? |
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__________________
Gawky supermodels may look stunning in the right clothes, on the right catwalk, in the right city, but in an M&S jumper, on a crowded street, on a wet Wednesday afternoon, only classic good looks will catch the eye. - Ian Eveleigh.
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18 Jun 2003, 18:52 (Ref:635832)
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#17 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 118
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but do the current tech regs allow Minardi to 'use' the cars, is it going to turn into another Prost/Phoenix situation..
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18 Jun 2003, 19:36 (Ref:635893)
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#18 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 413
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Phoenix bought the cars - but not the F1 license and therefore couldn't compete
Stoddart sold his Tyrell's last year. He said it wasn't to fund Minardi 2002, but where else did he put the money? Would the "generous" Dutch sponsor be van Ecclestone? I can't help but think of a little Dutch boy putting his fingers in a Minardi dyke 
Last edited by MiniMe; 18 Jun 2003 at 19:40. |
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__________________
Let no way be the way - let no limitation be the limitation! The late great Bruce Lee
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18 Jun 2003, 19:47 (Ref:635906)
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#19 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 258
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Thinking about it the Arrows was purpose built for the Ford Engine Where as Minardi didn't know until very late which engine would be going in the back so there must have been some compromise in the design.
If true this may be a wise move The Arrows wasn't a bad motor last year |
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19 Jun 2003, 00:11 (Ref:636121)
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#20 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,760
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I am not sure running the A23 would be the best plan. The small teams make as big gains as the lead teams, by and large, otherwise the gap from front to back would constantly grow - which, in recent years, is not the case (indeed, if anything, the opposite is true).
I thought the current regulations would make this illegal, given that teams are very restricted on the amount of technology they are allowed to give to other teams. Mind you, Arrows are not a team anymore... presumably, this means any restrictions are lifted. It would be a shame, to my mind, to see Minardi resorting to utilising another team's chassis: however, if it makes them more competitive, and it is allowed, then, ultimately, Paul has no decision to make. ***** Edited for typos. Last edited by Dutton; 19 Jun 2003 at 00:13. |
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__________________
"The world is my country, and science is my religion." - Christian Huygens: 17th century Dutch astronomer.
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19 Jun 2003, 00:35 (Ref:636131)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,071
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LEGALITIES
Yes, you are not at present allowed to run a chassis built by another team, but there is no entity called Arrows these days, so they're safe to use the A23, if it meets all the crash test requirements. DEVELOPMENT The Arrows A23 was a good car, that was built on a tighter budget than Minardi...it makes sense for Minardi to use it (if they can), as the PS03 was built for a generic engine, and Michelin tyres...the A23 is built for Bridgestones, and Cosworths... SERGIO RINLAND What's he up to? His last project was working on Peugeots in the British Touring Car Championship. Who knows where he'll wind up. TWIN-KEEL Minardi now have access to a twin-keel chassis...without buying this car there is no way they'd be able too... HOW FAST WILL IT BE? IMO, the A23, if they can see how it works, will be faster...the A23 last year was not a bad car, scoring points on two occasions, and running very strongly in Silverstone. With the new Bridgestone tyres, newer Cosworth engine, and perhaps some faster bits added on by Minardi, it should beat the PS03. PROBLEMS The only significant problem I see is understanding how the car works. It'd be a different story if they've got access to the data and telemetry. But what use is a car if you've got no idea how to run it? Aside from that problem, they've just gotta chuck years of knowledge out of the window if they switch to the Arrows design philosophy. Interesting idea on Minardi's part. Let's hope it pays off... |
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__________________
Don't let manufacturers ruin F1. RIP Tyrrell, Arrows, Prost, Minardi, Jordan.
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19 Jun 2003, 00:50 (Ref:636135)
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#22 | ||
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Race Official 1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 47,172
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The data and telemetry systems were provided by Pi Research, so heres me wondering whether Stoddart, in his claims of assistance from Ford, may be getting help from this direction to accelerate the Minardi thru Arrows plan??
Now if the Minardi boys could just land a sponsorship deal from Orange they wouldnt need to respray the cars 
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__________________
Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS
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19 Jun 2003, 00:55 (Ref:636137)
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,071
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Quote:
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__________________
Don't let manufacturers ruin F1. RIP Tyrrell, Arrows, Prost, Minardi, Jordan.
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19 Jun 2003, 02:18 (Ref:636158)
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#24 | ||
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Registered User
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,685
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smart move paul
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19 Jun 2003, 06:31 (Ref:636259)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,348
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I suspect these will be seen in the EuroBOSS series next year,or when eligable?
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Do it in the streets!
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