Toyotas spends more money

neilap · 11 Jul 2003, 04:38 (Ref:658489)

This article on grandprix.com is reaffirming my belief that Toyota will eventually buy their way to a title. In F1 money is king and Toyota is sitting on the throne. I say, give them two, maybe three more years. They will have purchased all the best people and will be on their way to a title.

senna12 · 11 Jul 2003, 04:49 (Ref:658493)

They have now been around long enough to have a pretty good idea of who represents the brightest young minds in the business, and they're obviously willing to spend what it takes to bring them aboard. Gotta spend that 30+ billion dollar cash fund somewhere. At least they realize the importance of hiring the best possible personnel, particularly in engineering and mechanical. I'm sure they're not through poaching yet. Apparently Brunner was not working with very many support staff, engineering-wise.

BMW V10 · 11 Jul 2003, 04:58 (Ref:658496)

Toyota teams have been able to enter and then dominate other types over motorsport due to the kind of money they have. It is hard to get up to pace in F1 but all the money they are spending is going to get them somewhere. They will certainly improve over the next few years and will be a threat to the big teams.

Wrex · 11 Jul 2003, 05:10 (Ref:658504)

They still miss one big thing - Drivers!

You can have all the people behind the scenes but until you have drivers that:

a) can give the feedback needed and have the developement skills, and

b) have the pace to drag the team forward,

your not getting anywhere fast.

This team needs a number one to build the team around, with pace and developement skills. AND stability.

I like both Panis and DaMatta, but they are not the guys deliver what they need. The have one semi-retired driver and a rookie. Panis would be a great back-up to the lead driver but DaMatta was a poor choice for them. The last thing a rookie team needs is a rookie driver. One has to educate the other, instead we have the blind leading the blind. DaMatta should have gone to another team.

However, what choices do they have. Michael would'nt leave Ferrari no matter how much money they threw at him. the only choices is maybe Coultard (big maybe) & Webber (who would be ideal by next year).

BMW V10 · 11 Jul 2003, 05:23 (Ref:658511)

JV and DC would be good drivers for Toyota. JV and DC are decent drivers who have proven themselves and DC is said to be very good at giving technical feedback, which is just what Toyota need. The problems with them though is that they would likely be expensive (not much of a problem for Toyota in particular), and that they are a bit long in the tooth. I think they still have a few years left between them. Mark Webber would also be a great buy if they could catch him but he will likely get offers from a number of teams.

Wrex · 11 Jul 2003, 05:31 (Ref:658514)

No way would Toyota be silly enough to follow BAR's (read Honda) mistake in hiring JV. JV has speed (when he feels like it) but the downside to his employment is huge. PR nightmare, non-team player, inconistant, semi-retired and expensive. Even for free JV would be too expensive for Toyota.

BMW V10 · 11 Jul 2003, 05:32 (Ref:658516)

Yeah you are right... Heh I think I would just enjoy to see what would happen if you put JV and Coulthard on the same team

jetsetter · 11 Jul 2003, 09:17 (Ref:658595)

How often are Toyota going to blame their drivers for their dismal form? I think they should settle on a driver combination for a certain time length & give them a competitive car & they'll find the results will start coming.

ASCII Man · 11 Jul 2003, 09:45 (Ref:658608)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
No way would Toyota be silly enough to follow BAR's (read Honda) mistake in hiring JV. JV has speed (when he feels like it) but the downside to his employment is huge. PR nightmare, non-team player, inconistant, semi-retired and expensive. Even for free JV would be too expensive for Toyota.

'Sorry Wrex is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.'

Dammit!

jonathanc · 11 Jul 2003, 11:23 (Ref:658667)

Hmmmm interesting as today Bernie has said that perhaps DC should move as he seems to be stuck in a rut and too comfortable at Mclaren.

I agree that Toyota could do well with DC and some excellent staff poached from the opposition.

It would also give DC number one position (something he realistically has never had at Mclaren) in a team and something to get his teeth stuck into.

If I was DC (which of course Im not,,,huf) I would seriously consider an approach made by Toyota.

So I guess watch this space over the coming months.

**Bononi** · 11 Jul 2003, 11:48 (Ref:658694)

I believe if one goes it will be Panis. DaMatta has a powerful relationship with Toyota, so it seems that he has at least one more year with them.

Wrex · 11 Jul 2003, 12:34 (Ref:658741)

Quote:

Originally posted by ®îjñtjûh
'Sorry Wrex is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.'

Dammit!

..... like your the first person to read that

Now only if I could get that feature to work in real life

Nice to know you tried keystrokes

neilap · 11 Jul 2003, 13:22 (Ref:658781)

Toyota has not dominated anything that they have entered. Wait, I lie, thay are doing well with their V8 toyota supra.

I think DaMatta is a good driver. He has surprised me. I thought he would struggle even more. Right now he seems to be as fast as OP.

JV to Toyota would keep the tradition of Toyota scouting Honda drivers so its not impossible, but improbable.

The big issue to me is how will this benefit F1. Even though I dislike the series, Nascar, is already worried about Toyota entering the sport. They will more than likely get the best sponsors, the best teams and will spend the most money. They can afford it. F1 is already like that. Only, I think the potential is there for it to be even worse than ever.

Personally, I feel that people will loose interest in these sports if it becomes plainly obvious that Toyota bought a title. Ferrari has tradition, it has history; its much different than the Toyota situation.

DNQ · 11 Jul 2003, 13:28 (Ref:658785)

Yes. I will mourn the day when Toyota buys their first WDC. Is it just me, or is Toyota the most souless, boring, dull, characterless, featureless team ever to embrace a Formula One grid?

Testure · 11 Jul 2003, 13:36 (Ref:658792)

With one or two exceptions, the constructors championship line up according to budget - Ferrari at the top, Minardi at the bottom, etc. So, for sure, Toyota are a good bet to win a title over the next 3/4/5 years.

Panis and da Matta are fine choices for this season and next (hasn't Ove Andersson already said they're keeping the same drivers for 2004?) It's a perfect development curve; car's getting better as are the drivers. Car won't be good enough to justify a driver like JV, DC or Webber for another couple of years, but if they stick with da Matta 'til then, I don't think they'll have any need to buy in some "star" driver.

avsfan733 · 11 Jul 2003, 14:36 (Ref:658836)

I can't see Toota winning anytime soon. there o be something fundamentally wrong with the team that just buying a brain trust won't help

Attila · 11 Jul 2003, 14:48 (Ref:658847)

Ralf Schumacher would be a good driver for Toyota. Obviously very very quick, maybe not agressive enough but in this car that is not the point. His technical feedback is also among the 3 best. The only problem with him that he is a bit expensive (3rd best paid driver on the grid). Anyway I probably would choose him for next year or in 2005.
Cheers,

BootsOntheSide · 11 Jul 2003, 15:03 (Ref:658862)

I don't think Ralf would agree to leave Williams now, and, contrary to what I was expecting, he has shwed what he's made of and secured his status at Williams.

I suspect he'd stay at Williams weven if Toytoa offered him twice as much, unless the rivalry with montoya got worse, or he suspected Frank of pro-JPM bias (in the way Piquet did alongside Mansell)

DC is mroe likely,a nd would be the ideal candidate, as his strengths are what toytoa are after, and his weaknesses are not a big deal at this stage. He's like Panis, but better in every way.

neilap · 11 Jul 2003, 15:46 (Ref:658907)

Quote:

Originally posted by DNQ
Yes. I will mourn the day when Toyota buys their first WDC. Is it just me, or is Toyota the most souless, boring, dull, characterless, featureless team ever to embrace a Formula One grid?

No, its not just you. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Toyotas entrance in F1 is not about the love of sport. They have launched a worldwide campeign to let people believe they are a racing company. Too many poeple thought of them as the people who make the Camry.

Another thing is that I feel they will do to F1 what they helped do to CART.

Kicking-back · 11 Jul 2003, 15:53 (Ref:658914)

Toyota does not have "something fundamentally wrong".

They are only in their second season.

Yes, they've got a massive budget - but there's no substitute for experience and they're gaining that all the time.

I'd expect them to take a big step forward next year.

As for the drivers, well, if they get the car right, the current pair will do just fine.

BMW V10 · 11 Jul 2003, 18:35 (Ref:659053)

They will be improving greatly but I do have to agree that they lack character

Wrex · 12 Jul 2003, 01:46 (Ref:659303)

Quote:

Originally posted by neilap
Toyotas entrance in F1 is not about the love of sport.

Neilap, are you serious? Do you really think Honda (or any of the others for that matter) entered for 'the love of the sport'? Pleeeaaaase

Toyota are here for the same reason Honda, BMW, Mercedes etc, to SELL MORE CARS!

neilap · 12 Jul 2003, 02:15 (Ref:659316)

You are not entirely correct. In the end its money that matters but some companies do love sport. Ferrari for example, its not just to sell cars. Ferrari whole heratage is rooted in racing. Honda is the same. Soichiro Honda insisted that his company be actively involved in differing racing series. Honda even rotates its engineers through the F1 program because they want that attitude instilled in them.

Toyota did not care about racing. They were completely content selling SUV's. However, when they saw that smaller compaines were thought of as being more spirited than they were they decided it was time to change their image.

Some companies do love race. Some companies are defined by their racing prowess. Its not just sales, its also passion for sport and technology. Toyota has very little of this instilled in their company.

gttouring · 12 Jul 2003, 02:15 (Ref:659317)

in fact honda entered in 1964 for exactly that, love of sport Soichiro Honda started the motorcycle business to fund his racing, and then started autos for the same reason selling the car was just the means to his ends- and when the torch passed, his successors would sell cars and race to do so.
Toyota dose lack character no love or history in F1 to back it like Prescision Mercedes and MAclaren, the Brutishly powerful BMW the romantic Ferrari, Jordan Upstart attitude, Jaguars (poor performance) but elegance of history and that british racing green.
Toyota can get character but they have no defining quailty- BAR is simply stumbling like a drunk in this years championship and last few, but Honda did so well with maclaren.
Toyota might do well with DC it might suit him well too, I agree DaMatta should stay at Toyota as he can soundly evelop the team and really we don't need a new batch of drivers over there.

Gt_R · 12 Jul 2003, 16:21 (Ref:659612)

I always welcome new teams. They add spice and show courage to come into the competitive world of racing. Even if they lack the history of racing, they are welcomed. Afterall, everyone have to start somewhere don't they?

And i don't blame teams with great budgets. Ferrari and Mclaren and Williams had big budgets too, but F1 comes first for them, commercial rewards take a back seat come sunday. They've managed well. Afterall, passion with no cash (read Minardi) will hardly get you anywhere.

And there is nothing wrong with trying to hire the best people in F1 to work for you. It's afterall you trying to get the best result you can get.

So do i support Toyota F1 team? Hell, no!

Why?

First, they came with the impression they are just on the bandwagon to cash in money/coverage/sale profits. And not only have they shown a "detached" interest in F1, they have also approached F1 the wrong way. And let's just talk about the way they achieve success. First, they see who's hot on the market, splash money and break contracts to get them. Then when it comes to cars, just look at this year's Toyota.... paint it red, and presto, you have a carbon(fibre) copy of F2002. What's worse? They don't try innovation for a change, but adopt the "copy-what's-hot" method. They see the F2003GA have low rear + shark-gill like hotair exit and they quickly integrate wholesale the idea into their own car. The car is nothing but a shameful piece of jigsaw racer. Even Minardi and Jaguar had the decency to just take reference but design a car for independently.

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