HSCC/HRSR first lap incident - Silverstone, 20/10/2007 -

[max3597]

Hi
Im the guy driving the Silver Mustang into the first corner in the HRSR race.
I am making the following information available as it was not considered by the judicial procedure conducted by Mr John Smith and subsequently the Stewards hearing the appeal after the accident.
Firstly at the start I was blocked by Bob Bullen which was quite extraordinary as I was in the process of probably taking points from his competitor for the championship.I was in a different class and he should have been concentrating on racing Dan Cox for maximum points not blocking me which in itself nearly caused an accident..
Secondly, the officials were only interested in the fixed one dimensional video. Anyone who watches football or rugby knows how unreliable this type of information can be.
The comentator saw what happened
The marshalls presented John Smith with a plan of the three cars immediateley before the accident which shows my car to be slightly infront of the cortina with a gap between us of aprox 4 foot. It shows the Vaulkhard mustang aprox 5 foot behind my car and Dans car. This was ignored.
Non of the officials inspected the cars. If they had done as you will see from the pictures of my car, my car was not involved in a side impact as you can see most of the rear wheel arch is undamaged.
When I first had time to inspect my car on Sunday I then sent the information to the HRSR for them to investigate.
I have posted that letter for your information.
























Mr R Sherringham Chairman of Historic Racing Saloons Register
27 Hinkley Road
Barwell
Leicestershire
LE9 8BL

22.10.2007

Dear Bob

Re First Corner Incident Silverstone Finals 20.10.2007 Race Number 3.

I am absolutely devastated by not only being involved in the above incident but also by the actions taken against me by both the Clerk of the Course and the Race stewards.

Following their investigation of the incident they concluded that I had caused the accident by swerving across the track and sandwiching the Vaulkhard Mustang with the Cox Anglia.

This I vehemently deny.

The Clerk of the Course decided to exclude me from the meeting and to indorse my racing licence with six points.

My appeal to the Race Stewards was refused.

Because I did not within 30 minutes of my appeal being refused give notice that I intended to appeal to the National Court I am now timed out and unable to take the matter further with the Motor Sports Association.

This MSA Judicial rules framework allows insufficient time (30 minutes between each hearing when most people have gone home) to consider clearly what to do next whether to contact witnesses or gather evidence. The process is inherently unfair and unjust and is set up so as not to give an appellant time to take the appropriate action.

I also over heard race officials openly stating that there had been too many incidents with the HRSR this year and that was why competitors were not wanting to race with the HRSR. The officials went on to say that they intended to stamp on the culprit on this occasion. Their intentions were clearly to make an example on this occasion for what had happened in the past the details of which I am completely unaware of.

Having now further considered the events and the new evidence that is available I would request that you and the Committee investigate for the club and for me as a member of the racing club and to let me have your opinion as to whether the incident was caused by my driving.
I will set out for your information what in my opinion happened between the start of the race and the accident.

To continue reading this letter please see my next post.

[max3597]

This is the next part of the letter peviously posted re Silver Mustang.


I will set out for your information what in my opinion happened between the start of the race and the accident.

I was placed in position three and was on the second row of the grid. The grid was set up in pairs of cars. In front of me were Dan Cox on the right and Bob Bullen on the left. On my left was Peter Halford and Nigel Vaulkhard was behind me.

I was expecting all the Mustangs to make a better start than the two cars on the front row. My car was pointing directly through the gap between the two cars in front of me. I was expecting to drive between the front two cars and reach the first corner in front of them.

When the lights turned green I started my planned move but as I approached the gap Bob Bullen steered his car violently to the right to block my progress. If I had continued I would have driven into Bob Bullen. Because Bob Bullen had swerved to the right to avoid the collision I swerved to the left at which point thankfully Peter Halford also swerved to the left therefore avoiding contact.

I then proceeded to overtake Bob Bullen on the left. When I cleared Bob Bullen I could only see Dan Cox who was on the right hand side of the track.

At this point my car was accelerating away well and I was making up a lot of ground on Dan Cox.

As we were getting towards the end of the pit straight I believed that I was going to reach the corner before Dan Cox and as we approached the corner I started to move across the track. When I was level with Dan Cox with about four or five feet between us I felt an impact which jolted my car forwards. This impact must have been on the back of my car as previously stated the car was jolted forward. After this there was a second movement of my car when the rear started moving to the left and I ended up at 90degrees and looking straight at Dan Cox. After this my car continued to turn until it was facing backwards down the track. My car came to a halt on the outside of Copse corner.

The Clerk of the Course was informed of all of this but preferred to rely on the video evidence which was a fixed view straight at the cars at a low level which was strictly one dimensional. Because of this it was impossible to ascertain the position of the cars as far as who was ahead of whom. It showed three cars in a line. Dan Cox on the Left, Nigel Vaulkhard on his right and me further out to the right. It shows my car turning in a controlled racing line towards the apex of the first corner. When I am about four or five feet to the side of Dan Cox it shows what appears to be me sandwiching Vaulkhard and Cox. This is what the Clerk of the course concluded.

The Clerk of the Course decided not to take into account a plan of the cars before the collision which had been provided by his own Marshals which supported my version which was that at the time immediately before the collision the line of my car was fractionally in front of Dan Cox and Vaulkhard was clearly behind both of us.

I pointed out to the Clerk of the Course that he could not rely on the video alone as it was to one dimensional. I pointed out that at the exact moment of impact there was an explosion of debris from my rear wing and that the explosion of debris continued as the Vaulkhard car ploughed down the side of my car. The Clerk of the Course decided to ignore this as the overall appearance from the video was that it was a sandwich.

On Sunday morning 21.10.2007 I unloaded my car from the trailer and for the first time was able to appraise the damage verses the allegation and conclusion made by the Clerk of the Course and the Race Stewards.

The damage to my car is not consistent with a side impact collision. On a side impact collision the body work is ultimately protected by the positions of the wheels. In other words the body work cannot be pressed in any further than beyond the line of the wheels.

The damage to my bodywork is as follows.

Rear Wing

Behind the rear wheel the wing has been damaged and is buckled some 7” inside the line of the rear wheel.
At the point of the rear wheel the wing is level with the wheel and the part in front of the wheel is hardly damaged.

Door

The door has been substantially pushed in about 8” inside the line of the Wheels.

Front Wing

The front wing behind the line of the wheel is substantially pushed in up to 7” inside the line of the wheel.
The wing in front of the wheel is not damaged.

Having considered every aspect of the incident I have concluded that at the time of impact both my car and Dan Cox,s were in front of Vaulkhard and I believe that Vaulkhard tried to burst through a gap that was not wide enough by an amount of 12” and in doing this he impacted straight onto the corner of my rear wing. His car continued to rip down my wing circa 6” inside the line of the wheel. This caused the forward jolt. When his car got to my rear wheel because it would not move the impact pushed my cars rear to the left which started the car to turn. His car was now along side my door with my car starting to turn and the impact to the door and rear part of the front wing is conducive to being T Boned.

I am not going to alter the evidence of my cars damage until this matter has been resolved and I am willing to make the car available for inspection by any authorised party at any location in the country.

Unfortunately none of the officials at the meeting inspected the car. I believe that if the car is inspected by a person or persons with the necessary experience my version of events will be confirmed.

Finally I have been made aware that the Race Commentator was heard to clearly say “I think Vaulkhard is going for a gap that’s not there”.

As I have set out at the beginning of this letter I am devastated by what has happened and whilst the MSA does not allow any further appeal I hope you will investigate the incident not only on behalf of me but all of the clubs members so that we can all be satisfied that the correct conclusion has been reached.

Yours Sincerely




Max Rostron

CC Graeme Dodd

[Marcus Mussa]

Sorry, I am getting confused. Is this HSCC or BTCC? I always thought you had to be leading on the last lap.
Marcus

[max3597]

hello again
This is a photo which has been sent to me of the Haulkhard Mustang that I have apparrently sandwiched against the Cortina.
Again no damage behind the drivers door and rear wheel arch so not consistent with side impact.
The damage at the front is consistant with a heavy impact and consistant to Vaulkhard trying to burst through the gap that is not there and hitting Dan Cox hard on his left rear wing.
A bit more background may help explain Haulkhards actions.
Through free testing on the Friday I was consistently 0.5 seconds faster than Haulkhard.
In the qualy I was 0.5 seconds faster.
It was clearly Vaulkhards intention to beat me to the first corner which lead to his desperate attempt to burst through the gap that was not there.
Thanks to the race officials I have been slaughtered in the Autosport today.
Thanks Race Officials.
Max Rostron
PS Does the Race Control tower have a stair case to allow Race Officials to come out of there glass tower and speak to witnesses and to inspect the cars.

[GBRM]

Max - Really sorry to hear about Silverstone. Best of luck with your appeal, I hope it gets sorted out; it does sound like the stewards/officials have been very one-sided. Have you asked Silverstone for footage of the incident? They have cameras everywhere and they have to keep all footage so it will still be obtainable and could be very useful.

Also, is this the beige/yellow Mustang that you race with my Dad or is it a newly built one?

[max3597]

Hi Gregor
Great to hear from you.
Yes the silver mustang is new (one year old). I sold the yellow one about 4 years ago and had so many spares that rather than try to sell them I built a new car.
As you know your dad came second at Goodwood in the yellow one and the year before won the St Mary,s Trophy race in my white and red Lotus Cortina. I still have the signed oil painting of that win that was given to Gerry. It has pride of place on my office wall.
My most enjoyable days of racing were with your dad when we raced in Europe together. He was a star. He was the King.
Many times on a night when Gerry was holding court in our awning and we were having some beers there would be twenty or thirty people sat around listening to Gerry telling his fascinating stories.
Sadly in a period of nine months we lost Gerry, Mike Bennion, Tony Lanfranchi and Miles Townsend four fantastic guy,s and since then racing for me has never been the same.
Once again luvly to hear from you.
How are you doing with the Capri. I read that you had had a good result.
Must run in the family.
Keep in touch.
Best wishes.
Max

[Tonto]

As I recall there is space for three cars abreast at Copse and the HSCC/HRSR race was a 10 lapper. So plenty of time for a car running 0.5 sec quicker to make up for a couple of lost places and wait for a better overtake opportunity. I wasnt there but would be interested in the video footage - perhaps it will appear on You Tube - but on the balance of evidence seen so far and the panel damage to the right hand side I suspect that the car on the outside of the three hasnt left space for the ones on the inside and has moved across unnecessarily resulting in the damage and DNFs all round. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but with its benefit would you pull the same move or wait and accept being 3rd or so out of Copse and approaching Becketts? It has been mentioned that HRSR have voiced concern about the number of incidents involving contact this season and on recent form it aint encouraging others into the series.

[GBRM]

Hi Max, good to hear from you too.
Now you say that I remember that you sold the yellow one. As I said above, sorry to see the damage and hope you get it sorted out but from all the stories Dad told me over the years I’d be surprised if anything changed but fingers crossed. I remember Dad getting his license endorsed back in ’86 and even with in-car footage from his car it still stood but I think it did lead to the abolition of black flags when a race is stopped.
Funnily enough with Goodwood being on ITV the weekend just gone I dug out some of my DVDs of Dad racing and watched the ’99 LC race again, brilliant.
Thanks for the kind words about Dad, I’m sure you can imagine how much I miss him too but I best not go too off-topic and upset the moderators here!! You’ll have to e-mail me your races for next year and I’ll try and get along to one or two.
I ended up with a Droop Snoot Firenza instead of a Capri and the season has been good, a few problems and still learning and massively looking forward to next year, 60+bhp more, a few other little bits and obviously more experience, should be great.

I don’t know if he still is but the circuit manager of Silverstone used to be Gary Dearne, he should be able to say if they have your incident all on camera and I’d be very surprised if not.

Good luck and regards to the family.

[John Turner]

Max, welcome to 10-Tenths; thank you for supplying your view of the accident. Whilst I do not advocate a public enquiry/debate on here, or publication of any response you receive from HRSR (unless agreed by all parties), I'm sure that we would be pleased to hear whether you receive a response and its general nature.

[max3597]

Hi John
Thank you for your note.
For the record my representation to your forum is in direct responce to the incident being debated dy some of your members and the allegations that were made including to my amazement the post made by john Smith Clerk of the course at Silverstone last Saturday and the very person who took the desision and imposed the penalty.
I hope you can understand that the incident and the resulting fall out has it would seem generated quite a bit of interest which I guess is the life blood of forums such as yours.
Regards.
Max Rostron.

[Robin_D]

Max,

From what I can read, Mr Smith has not actually said anything suggesting one thing or another on here. He has more or less refused to comment.

[johngee]

I would just like to point out, for the record, that I have NEVER commented publicly on any judicial matter in which I've been involved, nor will I do so now.

[terence]

Quite right John,an accident such as this and the ensuing fallout,only came about as a general topic,some asked "What Happened" and got a reply.
Personally ,I do not think that a forum such as this is the place for thoughts to be aired.Whilst I sympathise with Max,I think this subject on who did what etc should now be dropped.

[John Turner]

I have no problem with giving Max an opportunity to publicly provide his account of the accident, particularly since the incident has already received an airing in the media, and he felt he needed to respond. Equally, however, Max, it is clear that John has not offered any comment other than to say the matter was subject to a judicial process. In his position, I wouldn't expect John to comment further, and in fact, protocol effectively denies him the right of reply. I am pleased that Max felt able to use this forum to express himself, but as I have said earlier, and Terence reiterates, this is not the place to enter into discussion about the interpretation of the event by various parties or its outcome.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by terence bower

.....,I do not think that a forum such as this is the place for thoughts to be aired.Whilst I sympathise with Max,I think this subject on who did what etc should now be dropped.

Totally agree

[GBRM]

Just out of interest and I am really not siding with anyone as I don’t know the facts but why can't Max/John etc post what they want about a judicial procedure??
Isn't this what we have applauded from Andy B on another thread??
I'm not taking sides at all but if there's going to be an open debate about eligibility then where can't there also be about incidents?
Sure, this thread might not be the place to start it but I think it's very relevant when we have openly been questioning scruitineers judgements and then someone like Max comes along with a very open opionion and he is now being shot down when there are at least three threads critisicisng clubs/races/scruitineers about certain issues.
As I said I don't want this to be seen as sticking up for Max as I don't know all the details but it just smacks of double standards to me and if someone can advise the difference then I am happy to listen.

[terence]

Gregor,I am not shooting Max down.Obviously he has every right to post about the incident on here ,the same right we all have.The problem,s arise when those of us did not see the incident start giving oppinions.I do feel sorry for Max especialy at the amount of damage his car received etc,. but if this were allowed to continue,no good would come from it

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Just out of interest and I am really not siding with anyone as I don’t know the facts but why can't Max/John etc post what they want about a judicial procedure??

Gregor,
1) Max has actually done just that and posted exactly what he wanted on the process.
2) As Clerk of the Course, responsible for making the decision with which Max disagrees, John cannot sensibly become embroiled in a public discussion. As I said, protocol denies him the right of reply even if he wanted (and he may well do) to.

Originally Posted by GBRM

Isn't this what we have applauded from Andy B on another thread??

In fact, both Andy and Max have taken the opportunity to air their grievances on 10-Tenths, but Andy's case was de facto and historical, not ongoing. We don't know what, if anything, will come of Max's pursuance of this issue. In effect, you could treat it as the equivalent of the legal term, sub judice.

Originally Posted by GBRM

I'm not taking sides at all but if there's going to be an open debate about eligibility then where can't there also be about incidents?

Well, I'm not taking sides either. Max's posts stand for all to see, and John has clearly stated his intention not to reply, and for the reasons I have alluded to. I don't see what more 10-Tenths can do here to show evenhandedness. Frankly, I rather take exception to the term 'double standards' although hopefully, on reflection of my above comments, you may feel that was misplaced. The fact is that Max has expressed his position and John his. We need to respect the position and integrity of both, and not become judge and jury. If there is any further development regarding this incident that falls legitimately into the public domain, then by all means disclose it here, but please, as matters currently stand, let's now drop it and move on.

[max3597]

Just to clarify one or two points.
As I pointed out in the letter that I wrote to the HRSR I was timed out by the MSA because within 30 minutes of the Stewards informing me that my appeal had failed I did not appeal further the judicial procedure with the MSA is now at an end so any comment is not sub judice.
The structure is that the HRSR has a membership which is mainly made up of saloon car racers.
The HRSR allow the HSCC to run saloon car races for the HRSR.
The HSCC as with any other UK clubs has to appoint certain officials who preside over the meeting.
These officials (including the Clerk of the Course and Race Stewards) have to be accredited by the UK motor sport governing body which is known as the MSA.
The race meeting is conducted under the MSA rules.
I was penalised By the Clerk of the Course.
From the point of receiving that decision from him I had 30 minutes to decide whether to make an appeal, to gather all my evidence, find a piece of paper and pen so that I could write out the grounds of my appeal including locating and organising any witnesses and finally to get hold of my cheque book and write one out for the £170 appeal fee.
All this had to be done within 30 minutes otherwise all my rights to appeal lapsed.
As you can imagine that is not sufficient time to present a properly considered appeal. But I did what I could.
My appeal was turned down and therefore failed.
At that point if I wanted to appeal further to the governing body the MSA the same 30 minute process started all over again only not only did I have to provide the information previously required but now had to provide the following

• A skeleton argument that I am relying upon why I should be allowed to appeal
• Identify all the regulations that I am going to rely upon
• Indicate the number and identity of all the witnesses that I will be relying on
• And of course write out another cheque to the MSA but this time to the value of £500

At this point having no MSA book identifying all this to me and not knowing which witnesses I could call and having not seen the cars I decided to give up and take the matter up with the HRSR.
The HRSR do not have 30 minute time limits and I don’t need to pay them for what I regard as my rights having already paid to them the annual subscription together with my race entry fee part of which goes to you know where the MSA.
I hope that without going over the top you will understand why I am not a happy bunny.

[terence]

Fully understand Max,good luck with your quest.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by max3597

Just to clarify one or two points...........
All this had to be done within 30 minutes otherwise all my rights to appeal lapsed.
..

Max, I do wish you well in whatever you decide, I must just point out though that it is 30 minutes to LODGE an appeal not to make one. If you had appealed the stewards decision you could have lodged that within 30 mins with the MSA Stward and then you could have made the appeal at a later date with time to collate all the information you needed.

Good Luck

[max3597]

Thanks Terence and Claire

I agree in principal with what you say Claire but just to be clear I was not aware at that time of all the small printand even if you had the blue book with you it takes at least 15 minutes to find the relevant section never mind trying to under stand it .
If anyone is interested to see what I mean if you look in the blue book at section O chapters starting 6 deal with appeals.
The section you refer to Claire is 6.5.4 which I have to read about 10 times to enderstand that chapter on its own never mind all the others but thats probably because im not very clever having failed my 11+ exam in 1963.
It would probably be better if you could come along to future race meetings to look after me.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by max3597

It would probably be better if you could come along to future race meetings to look after me.

thats made my day Max...be careful....you never know I may take you up on the offer!

All the best

[max3597]

Sorry forgot to mention within the 30 minutes window of opportunity to appeal you have to part company with the £500 which is non refundable if you later decide not to continue with the appeal

[max3597]

claire what about this for an idea
We could have a weekend away.
No racing we will just take our blue books to read to each other.
You will be very safe because I will be asleep within minutes.