Motorsport noise "nuisance"

[mattbull]

Mildenhall stadium, which hosts Banger and Stock Car racing as well as Motocross nearby, has lost its recent Supreme Court battle with a couple who moved within a few hundred yards of the track and complained about the noise nuisance. Does this have far reaching repercussions for Motorsport in general?

Oval racing in particular seems to be getting squeezed from all directions at the moment with several venues under threat. With recent complaints at Croft and Mallory too, are these just the tip of the iceberg?

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/west_row_...bill_1_3367840

Matt

[SidewaysFeltham]

Makes my blood boil!

In most areas of planning, established use is predominant.

Not with those who rush to buy their bijou house next to a facility which has been running for many years and then complain bitterly about the nasty noises made by aircraft, smelly racing cars, even church effing bells!

Perhaps about time all that foul thudding ear offending bass rap was banned from cars driven by chavs, if we are to enjoy equality.

[mattbull]

Another valid point is that the track, and therefore their house is right by the Air base! Wonder if they are their next target!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-...20783714634464

Facebook users can add their weight to the calls to save the stadium by liking this page... It was set up in the earlier stages of the legal battle, when, to be honest, no-one was really believing they would be successful. It will be a great plus point to get the supporters to over 10,000.

Regards

Matt

[chunder]

This is an odd story, like Matt I have been involved in short oval racing for years and this one has some strange issues.

The couple bought a house near the track, claiming they didnt know about the noise. Then their oil tank dropped its oil and strangely the house burned down.

Then there were reports about disturbance from people to do with the racing fraternity, then we get this.

THe case was thrown out of one court and is now been to teh high Court and sustained.

If it goes through a track surrounded by farms and an airfields and farms for decades goes under and with it speedway, dogs and a thriving stock car track.

But the people running it apparently did not present a very good case to defend their tracks according to the judge, and this is the important message.

it is no good claiming innocence and that the tracks has been here for years, the judge sadi the hosue and plot had been there longer

It doesnt wash and more work needs to be done in these cases to make the judge aware of what could be lost, what the benefits are and attempting to do all you can to prevent noise, disturbance and issues.

You can no expect a judge to be behind you, he will nearly always side with the complainant, as he did in the Croft case.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by mattbull

......

Facebook users can add their weight to the calls to save the stadium by liking this page... It was set up in the earlier stages of the legal battle, when, to be honest, no-one was really believing they would be successful. It will be a great plus point to get the supporters to over 10,000.

Regards
Matt

almost 10,500 already :-)

[EastonNeston]

The full judgement is here

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/26.html

[Asp]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

The full judgement is here

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/26.html

That's the Court of Appeal judgment - that has been overturned by the Supreme Court in this judgment.

[S griffin]

Common sense dictates that if they don't like the noise don't move there. It's like those people who live by the river and then complain about the floods

Sadly common sense means nothing these days. Maybe they can swap their house with one of us, people who actually like the racing.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Common sense dictates that if they don't like the noise don't move there. It's like those people who live by the river and then complain about the floods

No, it's a bit different. Common sense also says that if someone does something that creates a racket, they should make sure that the racket only stays on their land. Imagine you have a farm in the middle of nowhere, you were struggling and therefore looking to sell some land as a development or just to raise cash, and someone sets up a racetrack next door. Suddenly your land is worthless because of the noise. Is that fair?

These days things like planning permissions tend to take care of that sort of affair. They can change the environment to one in which noise is more acceptable. But the case seems to suggest there was a ramping up of noise pollution in recent years.

But, what the judgment does is to put the ball back in court. The injunction is restored - with liberty to apply, i.e. to vary the terms or to say that it should be replaced by damages.

This is actually a very big case. The judges on it are all intellectual high powers; the only one without experience is Sumption who is the most genius of them all. Surprised Hale wasn't on there as she's often a contrarian. She might have put in some interesting comment from leftfield. But the Court has basically said "we need a test case on this now" - and this might be it.

[Asp]

PS - I'm going to move this thread to Trackside as it's a wider issue than N&C racing, and similar discussions have happened there in the past

[chunder]

Also, when you read the notes, little things pop out, such as the presumption from the people running the track that because it has been there a while, everyone knew about the noise situation.

And the judge then says something along the lines of the plot of land where the house was has been there longer, stupid argument. More work was needed by the owners in my view, they were maybe a bit arrogant in thinking.

Ensign is right, it is not a question of whingeing about the neighbours who don't like it, it is simply a case of putting your own house in order. I have been to Mildenhall and it is a nice little stadium, surrounded by trees and not really close to anything except farms.

But, can you imagine living right next to a track that ran PA for dogs, speedway, stockcars and had a motocross track running maybe twice a week too? ON a bad week that is probably 4 nights a week, until lateish. All day for motocross.

Ok, you should do your homework when you are moving, but it seems to me that there has been a bit of stuff going on behind the scenes here that has provoked this couple into not giving a damn about the cost, they will push this through no matter what.

And that worries me more than anything else as it is the why? House was burned down remember. And no matter what you say Mildenhall is a very popular banger track, and banger racing attracts all sorts of unsavoury characters, from gypsys to unscrupulous characters. Obviously it also attracts thousands not like this, but you know what I mean.

[terence]

Seems to me that these idiots who placed the complaint have no idea on the possible hassle they have caused themselves! Best puting their property on the market now rather than later as they have no chance (rightly so) of integrating whatsoever.

[chunder]

You fail to see their point really.

They bought it, it was burned down! Either by accident or on purpose, so why on earth would you rebuild a house if you knew there was a racetrack next to it that you have complained about!

While I agree most would hotfoot it and leave the area, these folk are clearly determined to stay and rid the area of the track.

Whether you agree with that or not, it would be daft to rebuild the hosue after the last debacle, and the land will be worth more (maybe) when the track is gone, if it goes.

It is likely to be appealed obviously, but the prospects look fairly edgy I suspect.

[JohnD]

The caselaw that was quoted in the Croft case was Shelfer v City of London Electrical Lighting Co.
http://casebrief.wikia.com/wiki/Shel...al_Lighting_Co.

The discussion on that site quotes one of the judges, LLJ Smith, sayaing that:
"when there are four conditions present, then damages should be given instead of an injunction:
1.if the injury to the plaintiff's legal right is small,
2.if it is one which is capable of being estimated in money,
3.if it is one that can be compensated by a small money payment, and
4.if it would be oppressive to the defendant to grant an injunction"

To destroy someone's business by making it impossible for them to carry on seems to me "oppressive", but that is only one condition. No doubt this argument will run and run.
John

[mattbull]

An online e-petition has just been set up for this case. Please do sign it as the law needs to change in this regard to protect all Motorsport, in fact all sport or any noise making activity/passtime.

Feel free to spread the word and copy the link to other forums/facebook etc.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/62894

Many thanks

Matt

[JurekB]

It's not just us having problems, it seems a lot of music venues are at risk of closure due to encroaching residential buildings. They now have their own e-petition similar to the motorsport one that the government ignored a few years ago.

It might be worth supporting this as a change in the law would benefit motorsport as well as music venues and maybe if all lovers of noisy things united to fight for a common cause there may be a bit more of a chance.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/65582

[terence]

Living next to the Ring we are very often aware of the latest Astons/Jaguar road cars being tested (they sound gorgeous btw) I keep meaning to ask the noise marshalls what db ratibg these cars put out.A couplebof weeks ago I went round in a friebs Honda s2000, mugen engine etal and after a handfull of laps came in only to be told, yet again, that we will have to get the driveby down to 120db for next year, instead of the 140 its currently pumping out.The local residents here couldnt give a stuff about exhaust noise, they know they live next to a race circuit and enjoy living next to it.
Completely different mind set to the moaning brits I suppose.

[midgetman]

The problem in the Uk Terry is with an ageing population we've all been sold the chocolate box retirement story, and the younger locals earning a living or wanting to live in new houses threatens that 1950s pastiche.

I'm not a fan of these online petitions, it's not surprising they are ignored. It's all too easy for every Tom, Dick and Harry to click the petition link without even knowing what it's for let alone the context. And as we saw with Mallory there is often a back story that isn't so widely publicised.

A trader friend of mine regularly doesn't leave oval stadiums until well after midnight, at which stage your Ring enthusiasts are all tucked up and asleep. Whilst I have sympathy for the "don't move there" view, we all have to live together and a compromise is often all that's required.

[chunder]

In all fairness 140 db is insanely loud!

If any car in UK motorsport was running that loud (apart from stuff like F1 cars etc, top fuel drag etc) they would be instantly dumped from track days, most race meetings.

The housing situation in the UK is currently bordering on insanity, it's the only thing apart from finance fuelling the economy as normal business is dead in the water pretty much, or certainly not expanding.

So housing encroachment is only going to get worse, and with some forms of racing like hillclimbing they have been fantastically proactive with regard to noise, but others are simply ignorant.

To be honest running any roadish car at 140db is borderline illegal, would certainly fail an MOT over here.

We were stopped for running a fairly noisy exhaust at the ring a few years back, it was only just over 100, but we voluntarily installed a baffle to try and do the right thing.

Maybe a few others could be a little more sensible.

[diddy100]

Interesting reply from the Gov re the petition - see Autosport website. Although as expected no legislation it does look like it is in the hands of circuit owners to ensure they do their the right thing in noise management, which I know MSV are doing an excellent job with noise management plans for each circuit that is reviewed by both district and local parish councils on a regular basis. They do state the value of the motorsport industry has a benefit to the overall economy of the country and must not be eroded.