F1 becoming Champ Car?!?!

[Ac.]

Unbelievably, it seems that F1 teams have agreed in principle to accept the rule changes proposed by the FIA for their sport. These rules are designed to reduce the cost of fielding a team in F1, and to improve competetiveness in the series.

The rules themselves echo those of Champ Car - sealed ECU's, standard brakes, long life engines, etc.

What impact will these changes have on Champ Car in 2006, if any?

Details here: http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto...e/10932/?from=[HOME]

[Snrub]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. They're looking to reduce costs 50%. That means the top teams will be spending a mere $200M while the top CART teams probably aren't spending $20M. Also, notice they used the phrase "standard brakes". This doesn't necessarly mean going to a metal rotor.

I think that even if F1 scaled back to CART levels there is still a place for both.

[racinthestreets]

I agree that CCWS and F1 will not be bumping heads. Far too many available venues for just one series and F1 has a solid market. CCWS is still defining it's market.

[Tim Northcutt]

From the engines they are proposing, it sounds more like the "other" series than it does Champ Cars...

Traction Control will be gone, etc...in addition to possible 2.4 L normally-aspirated V-8s....

That don't sound like Champ Cars to me....

[KC]

They all agree in prinicipal now, but when the "sign on the dotted line" time comes, I guarantee that Willaims, McLaren, and Ferrai will balk at the proposed changes. The three big teams are not that intersted in making the racing less epxensive as much as they are intersted in increasing their porfit margin. The teams could easily trim $50 to $60 million dollars by doing away with the bulk of the creature conforts they create and transport to the races. Does the team really need a glass and titanium cafeteria at the races, or would a simpler tent do the job. If any of them were truly interested in cost cutting there are a million things that could be cut before just changing brake rotors and engine management.

[Hsaavedra]

Knowing how the Big Two are, they would just as soon get around the new regs anyway, instead of actually doing anything constructive for the series.

[Amar7605]

Originally posted by KC
The teams could easily trim $50 to $60 million dollars by doing away with the bulk of the creature conforts they create and transport to the races. Does the team really need a glass and titanium cafeteria at the races, or would a simpler tent do the job. If any of them were truly interested in cost cutting there are a million things that could be cut before just changing brake rotors and engine management.

That is an excellent point! I mean, I bet that actually running two cars in F1 only costs like 80 million. It's all of that other unnecessary **** that they have. I mean, does McLaren really need that trailer that turns into an office building like a Transformer? As cool as that looks, it is highly unecessary.

Now all of their freewheeling spending ways are catching up with F1

[KC]

The truly incredible thing to me is that the amazing diesel transporter that turns into a two story office building at the track works better than the latest F1 car by the team. Maybe the engineer that built and made that thing work should dsign the car, maybe it could turn and run for 90 minutes without catching fire.

[Snrub]

One thing that is forgotten is that the money that is being spent by BAR, Toyota, Renault, Jaguar is no longer massively eclipsed by Ferrari, Williams, McLaren. I belive Williams and McLaren are not even the number 2 and 3 teams in terms of spending. There was a thread a couple months ago in the F1 forum with the actual numbers. It's gotten nuts.

IMO F1 has gotten to the point that the manufacturer teams should just dump $1B into one season, win and leave. For Jaguar and Toyota that's much more cost effective then spending hundreds of millions each year and achieving nothing.

[Amar7605]

We all know that motor racing is money driven. But what is interesting is that now the lack of money has caught up with the sport. I mean, even NASCAR is having trouble fielding 43 cars in each race.

I think that motor racing in general really needs to look hard at how it spends its money. I like the prestiege and mystique that is a part of the sport, but I think all of that oppulence has really diluted the sport over the years, and now we are seeing the ramifications of that all over the world.

[cartpix]

Originally posted by Amar7605
I mean, does McLaren really need that trailer that turns into an office building like a Transformer? As cool as that looks, it is highly unecessary.

I don't think the proposed new rules, have anything to do with support equipment.

Jeff

[Amar7605]

Originally posted by cartpix
I don't think the proposed new rules, have anything to do with support equipment.

Jeff

Maybe, but you don't think that the F1 teams will take the money that they save on racing and put that into their support equipment? I mean, c'mon.

[AllofaSutton]

F1 is trying to cut costs, NOT emulate Champ Car. If thats what they wanted the would sell F1 to three clowns and watch all their best teams go to the IRL.

[cartpix]

Originally posted by Amar7605
Maybe, but you don't think that the F1 teams will take the money that they save on racing and put that into their support equipment? I mean, c'mon.

You're probably right. They'll probably have trailers, that turn into 4 story office buildings.

Jeff

[Mouser]

If F1 is merely attempting to rein in Michael Schumacher
with more rules,then it'll have to be a weight penalty
for Ferrari.I think that is the only way anyone is going
to beat Michael.He is practically untouchable.

[macdaddy]

This thread is arguably out-of-forum to begin with.
How we seem to have strayed to Schumacher is beyond me.

[Mags]

I think any topic about F1 in this time is bound to go to TGF. He IS F1 at this moment!

[Ac.]

My original thought with this thread was whether or not the changes to F1 would make bringing the F1 circus to a venue more affordable, and thus cut into the international market that Champ Car is obviously pursuing.

The consensus seems to be that there are lots of venues around the world looking to host a race, enough for the two series to share.

[racinthestreets]

That is my opinion Ac. In race season there are plenty of cities capable of hosting races - not to mention any off season which is where the new open wheel series A1 Grand Prix is targeting. That could see year round racing and I wonder if it will have some of the drivers that we currently see in F1, CCWS and IRL driving in more than one series.

[KC]

The problem lies in the fact that the biggest teams will still spend the same amount of more money every year even if the cars were made simple. Its in their culture to do so. They would buy more track time to test, or more sophisticated simulators to test and more engines and more experimental designs. They are liek the bigt fish in the little pond. They greedily eat up the rest of the little fish and then one day the pond is full of only them and they start eating one another until its all gone. How long until there are very few major sponsors willing to invest quarter of a billion in a team? Oh, that's already happening today.

[Liz]

I agree with KC. I also agree that the only thing necessary to cut costs is to cut the party wagons and carbon fibre toilet seats -- but as long as the racing is ennervating, the fashion, scandal, political handbaggery and gossip is all they have to sell.

Thankfully Champ Cars are still concentrating on racing and not infrastructure. I don't see a conflict.

[Amar7605]

It definitely is a contrast between Champ Cars and F1, is there?

[jj2728]

Originally posted by Liz
I also agree that the only thing necessary to cut costs is to cut the party wagons and carbon fibre toilet seats -- but as long as the racing is ennervating, the fashion, scandal, political handbaggery and gossip is all they have to sell.

[Ac.]

Originally posted by Liz
I agree with KC. I also agree that the only thing necessary to cut costs is to cut the party wagons and carbon fibre toilet seats -- but as long as the racing is ennervating, the fashion, scandal, political handbaggery and gossip is all they have to sell.

Does that carbon fibre toilet seat make something go faster, or does it just help lighten your load?!?

[Amar7605]

Originally posted by Ac.
Does that carbon fibre toilet seat make something go faster, or does it just help lighten your load?!?